Charleville or Bess with shot?

[Paul63]

In my earlier reenactment days I acquired both a Charleville and short land pattern Brown Bess,both Pedersolis and both in excellent condition.
Been itching to do some shotgunning but would like info from experienced smooth bore shooters before stepping into it.
Thanks, Moleman

 

[satx78247]

IF you believe the numerous period documents from the Post AWI period about hunting with surplus military muskets, such hunting with small shot to buckshot, to "ersatz loads" of scrap metal/glass/pebbles & patched round ball was commonplace for hunting & frontier defense.
(During TWBTS, CS Marines & CSN sailors liked the Bess for repelling boarding parties, using "fluff", i.e., "mixed loads of broken glass, shot & scrap metal".)

A Bess is simply suitable for any number of varied loads, sturdy/unlikely to break, has plenty of power & quite versatile, when compared to other available flintlocks of that period.

Here in Texas, after our Revolution against The Dictator & up until TWBTS, the most common long-arm was likely the Brown Bess.
(Several thousand Bess muskets were abandoned by deserting Mexican troops or surrendered to the Texas military forces after The Battle of San Antonio & after San Jacinto. = GEN Houston allowed any TX militiaman, who wanted a Bess, to take one or more muskets home after the war.)

just my OPINIONS, satx

 

[tenngun]

As far as shooting is concerened a bess or charly work well. A bess is '11' gage and a charley about '16' gage. Both are made as fighting not hunting guns. Going after turkey deer and bigger they work well. Should you want to go after Quail, duck, ect on the wing the guns are a bit heavy and bulky for wing shooting. Both will shoot as well as a fowler, but with one I might have to dine on tail feathers or empty air.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Basically, any military musket is just a big ole heavy shotgun. You will have to decide if you're going with the wad, card and shot of tow and shot or a combo of both. One of the finest muzzleloading musket hunters I've ever known made his own military style paper cartridges for both ball and shot. His were originals and hunted with Long Land Pattern Besses , a Baker rifle and a fowler by William Clark. Back then all the different wads weren't available for muzzleloaders like there are now so he had to use the plastic/fiber reloading wads designed for reloading shotgun shells. In both cases, **** rolled paper around a dowel and even sifted his powder and carefully filed sprues off the balls. Bit of a perfectionist but he got results. We have a number of smoothbore hunters here and you can get a lot of information. I would personally recommend you read through our pal Spence's page on his hunting and shooting adventures...I personally feel it should be mandatory reading for all shooters new to the sport. He, like myself, now shoot .62s or 20 gauge fowlers. I've had and extensively used a M.1809/39 Prussian Potsdam musket...mine was converted to percussion but it was a useful tool for Texas squirrels, bunnies and whitetails. First of all, measure both bores to be positive of what you've actually dealing with, because getting the right diameter cards and wads is essential. Outfits like Track Of The Wolf can help you and carry it all.

There's a load list above under Chart-References and if you'll look in this section, there's a discussion of using hemp instead of tow for simpler loads. You can check through the posts history to find many discussions of using tow. For myself, I've used tow, hemp shreds, leaves, grass and even clover! It all works to some degree but the tow and hemp would probably be the most useful.
To get your feet wet, read through of Spence's stories and helpful hints...good luck and enjoy! :wink:
http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/

 

[crockett]

satx: I was surprised there was a "Texas" musket supplied by Tryon.
http://www.sanjacinto-museum.org/A...s/Rare_Tryon_Model_1816_Musket_Now_on_Display/

 

[spudnut]

I hunt small game all the time with my LLP bessI use a 90 gr measure with 2F .A tight wad of wasp nest or tow over the powder.this is important to get a good ooomph Out of your charge,I use 1 and a half measures of #4 shot .held in with a smaller wad ,enough to hold the shot in.I have good luck with paper cartridges with round ball.

 

[Rifleman1776]

You have both. Try both and tell us which you like best. The shooting part is the fun part of this game. It can't all happen at the keyboard.

 

[BrownBear]

I probably fire my Bess 100 times with shot for every single time I shoot it with round balls. Just dandy. That's because I hunt with it lots.

Measure your bore, then get the right diameter components.

 

[satx78247]

President Lamar insisted on those FL muskets. - The muskets were supplied to the Army, Navy & the Rangers, evidently throughout The Republic period.
(Lamar seemed to have been influenced in his choice by US Army "volunteers", who came to Texas to fight The Dictator & brought their US muskets with them.)

Note: According to a TAMU professor who spoke at TA&M/SA, there were at least 3 versions:
1. Marked with a LONE STAR on the lockplate,
2. Marked with TEXAS on the lockplate
and
3. Some simply marked TYRON in one or more places.


yours, satx

 

[nhmoose]

Heavy swingers but great for shooting sitting bird on ground or roost.

I got no problem with that as waiting for them to fly is a sport's idea not an original hunter's.

 

[satx78247]

I don't hunt birds.

yours, satx

 

[tenngun]

"Ah, there's the rub". Even my fusil is a night long and heavy to track a bird on the wing.

 

[satx78247]

"Good 'ole Bess" is FINE for land-based critters of all sorts though.
(When I find one, I may take a wild turkey or 3 when I get the chance. = I often see turkeys "walking about" in the South Texas brush, when hunting WT, hogs & other critters. = A flock of NINE together in just one afternoon last Fall.)

yours, satx

 

[Britsmoothy]

actually don't like my Bess!
It needs excessive amounts of shot and powder to do the same as my smaller bores do on much less!
It is good for hunting fox with shot as it can deliver enough for that.
I have wing shot with it but actually prefere my 45 Kentucky smooth bore instead!!
B.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Before tearing up my shoulders, my 'Bess was the moistest funnest gun to shoot I ever had. Ever. :grin:
Once went quail hunting with. Only guy not with a modern shotgun. Using light charges (70 gr. real bp) and 1 1/4 oz. #7 1/2 shot. BTW, simply called "birds" here in Arkansas.
Never had bird hunted before, with any kind of gun.
Guess who was only one to come home with ded birds. :wink: Hint: wasn't one of them with modern shotties.

 

[satx78247]

CONGRADS.

yours, satx

 

[Britsmoothy]

Before tearing up my shoulders, my 'Bess was the moistest funnest gun to shoot I ever had. Ever. :grin:
Once went quail hunting with. Only guy not with a modern shotgun. Using light charges (70 gr. real bp) and 1 1/4 oz. #7 1/2 shot. BTW, simply called "birds" here in Arkansas.
Never had bird hunted before, with any kind of gun.
Guess who was only one to come home with ded birds. :wink: Hint: wasn't one of them with modern shotties.

I appreciate your experience but I said "my" Bess and you said you went once!
If I was to go quail hunting my Bess would be my last choice and my 45 first choice!
B.

 

[satx78247]

I don't suppose that ANY firearm is suitable for every sort of hunting, though a quality CapeGun or a drilling comes as close as anything.

yours, satx

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Are the Pedersoli Bess's worth it? or are they junk?

 

[satx78247]

May I suggest that you ask a flintlock expert??

I think that most everything by Pedersoli is OK.

yours, satx