Cheap blackpowder kits

[USMCsniper]

Hi all,

I have lately been considering starting my own SMALL business. This is still just thoughts, I am not promising anything (could just be a passing fancy), but I have a few consumer questions for you.

What happened to all the cheap Italian and Japanese made black powder (muzzle loader) kits/guns like CVA/Juker Etc...

Is there some sort of import ban I do not know about, or is there just not much demand for them?

I know I would love to have them available again, how about you?

If I was ever able to start importing some from Spain or where ever would anyone buy them?
I wouldn’t really be after much of a profit, mostly just enough to cover the expenses, so they would be cheap enough that anyone could afford one.

I would probably (if I ever do go with this hair brain idea)
start with the more classic models aka: Hawken and Kentucky models, then if business picked up expand to more.

Now a question for any of you legal guru's, what type of licensing would be required to do this.

Please post your vote (I can't find how to make a poll.

1. I would have extreme compulsion to buy lots
2. I might buy a few
3. I might buy one
4. I am not at all interested
5. I don't think there would be much interest
6. Nobody cares about muzzleloaders anymore :shake:

 

[bwhoffman]

licensing, liability come to mind.
I would buy a few(one of each/everything) if the were available. Traditions is trying this as well, price-wise.

Brett

 

[Pork Chop]

I can't swear that I would buy one, but I sure would be interested - especially in a kit of the old CVA Squirrel Rifle with the double set triggers...

 

[chuck-ia]

Don't know, I might buy one, really depends on the cost. Let me rephrase that, depends on the price of the quality parts. If you use cheap parts, I personally don't think you will be in business long. Just my thoughts. flinch

 

[Zonie]

I wouldn't buy one, but that's because I have more than my fair share of high quality muzzleloaders so I'm not the market your thinking about.

I believe the only suppliers are the same ones who are delivering guns to Traditions, Lyman, Cabelas and Dixie so you will be in direct competition with them.

You would need to invest a lot of money in inventory in order to get the existing suppliers to even talk to you about costs and delivery.

You would also need to spend a lot of money getting your companys name out to the public. Without this, you would end up with a pile of unsold items.

You also should think about Marketing your guns. To really get these inexpensive guns and kits out to the public, you would have to deal with some of the large stores and it seems that many of them don't want to have anything to do with firearms, muzzleloading or otherwise. This is the reason WalMart is getting out of the market and places we used to go like Sears, Pennys, Target, K-Mart etc don't have anything more dangerous than a Red-Rider BB gun for sale.

I don't know for sure, but I would think that in addition to the importers license, State license, City license (if any) you would need to have insurance to cover your company against lawsuits from the idiots that pour Bullseye or Unique down their barrel and are maimed or die.

It sounds like a neat idea but the amount of work (and money) to get it going is staggering.

 

[GrayBear]

Good luck! If you can get this started I'll be a customer unless your defination of "inexpensive" is $600-800 and Up - - mostly UP!

I'm retired and just can't cut the prices of most of the stuff being pushed today.

I miss CVA! My minor battery of a CVA .50 rifle, a CVA 12 gauge shotgun, an H & A .50 Kentucky-style piston and a no-name but accurate little .31 Remington-clone pocket revolver gets the job done. The guns punch paper and take game and have been a lot of fun at very little expense.

Good luck to you!

GrayBear

 

[mbw907]

I am in the same boat as you as far as being unable to afford the prices that some are asking. I am not talking about a handcrafted gun because you are and should be paying for someone's talent and hard work. But there should be some companies out there who have quality factory made muzzleloaders and kits that are dependable and affordable.I miss the seventies also when there was plenty out there to choose from. Good luck if it is possible. I am afraid the good old days are over for now as far as cheap dependable guns go.

 

[faw3]

Im going to agree with Zonie on all this, I think he missed one thing, since I know some people that have messed with this idea and did ok..the 911 thing put a real hurt to it all, your guns can sit on a dock some place for months waiting to be inspected before being let in. Deer Creek has shut down makeing the H+A, Mowrey, Deer Creek rifle( the CVA Mountain Rifle with a Douglas Barrel) and Elk hunter( the same) and the mule ear, all was USA made at the shop and better than any rifle made over seas at twice the price, to much work for so litle profit? No!, just no buyers. Anyhow hope this helps. FRED :hatsoff:

 

[tg]

i would like to see more entry level traditional type guns available but don't know if the market is there due to all the B.S. hype about the superior modern ML guns, and the apparent flock syndrome following the alledged "user friendly" aspect of these.

 

[faw3]

It seems to me more each time I ger a new Muzz Blast and look at one thing each month that we are a about to be gone tribe. If it has a hammer on the side ect who needs it seems to be the way most places are run now. Its really sad trimes and getting worse. Fred

 

[wilded]

I think you will find part of the problem was with the drop in the worth of the American dollar, Spanish and Italian made firearms are no longer cheap. What I mean is quality is still no better than it was but they cost a lot more than they used to. Some Italian makers sell guns for more than American manufacturers now. I would look at some of the suppliers like Deer Creek that still sell some of the old CVA guns. Study the prices they ask for them as you would have to compete. I would love to see a good inexpensive small caliber flinter.

 

[USMCsniper]

I was thinking of like the 70's.
I would hopeing that it would be possible to sell a kit for about $70 range.

the idea is so that everyone would be able to get started in the great sport of Black powder shooting.

Mostly they would just be starter guns, to get them started in the hobby.

As I said this is just a hair brain idea so far, nothing is in stone.

 

[Pork Chop]

This may cause a lot of cat calls and jeers from the mob, but if you want to reduce cost to be able to sell that inexpensively, you may need to check other markets. Chinese, former Soviet countries, etc. may be a source for inexpensive barrels and locks. India could source inexpensive sand cast brass parts. Wood can be found all over...

 

[Forster]

Here in New England used muzzle loaders don't hold their value and given the choice between a used Thompson or Lyman vs. an entry level rifle I would tend toward the used TC or Lyman. Others might feel differently, thats ok. I use The Kittery trading post in Maine as a gauge for prices, they have an on line used gun list that I check now and then...Jim

 

[bavarialand]

what WE can do is have everyone who is a smokepole lover {like you/me} write to a company of our choice {traditions?} and ask them to increase there inventory of inexpensive kits and increase the variety of kits as well. if WE all decide what company would be best for this WE can all write them and ask for this to be done. WE could also tell said company that WE would give them OUR business for kits and spread the word on the web and with our friends. just my nickles worth, Dave :hmm:

 

[USMCsniper]

Remeber this is just an idea.

But if I could find some blueprints or plans and a contractor that could make repro Halls breech loaders, do you think there would be much interest it would probaly cost more than a cheap kentucky or hawken kits, I'd think it could be still in the $100-$200 range.

I know I would love a Halls.

 

[Nightkilla]

Dude, AWESOME.I'm a 13 yr old national science fair finalist and am in the market with my sizable winnings for a starter muzzleolader. Ironically, my mom agrees to a 50 cal, but not a 17 cal bolt action. Lol. Anyways, I would totally be in the market for a cheap but good gun. Maybe a pistol.

Tell me how it goes.

Chase :hmm: Sounds VERY good.

 

[cynthialee]

hey nightkilla,
Get a rifle. A black powder rifle, musket or shotgun doesn't bring visions of massacre to peoples mind eye when they see them. They see an old fashioned and quaint gun of questionable deadlyness.
A revolver in the hands of a teen is rather disturbing to some folks.
I guess what I am saying is that if you get a long arm then no one is going to wonder if you are up to no good. But a revolver is differant. It reminds people of the wild west and gunfighters.

 

[Zonie]

Cynthialee is right.

A lot of States consider a black powder pistol (even a single shot) to be a firearm.
They often prohibit owning or even possessing one by a underage person unless an adult is with them.

Some States have similar laws even with rifles.

I know that some will say the US Government doesn't consider muzzleloaders as firearms but the important thing is, what does your State laws say?

 

[Nightkilla]

I was thinking of a pirate type pistol, and was already planning on getting a civil war long rifle.