Cheating In Matches

[Mulebrain]

I don't cheat, but have heard of people loading extra balls etc....

 

[tenngun]

I recall the Sergeant York movie. He was shooting matches for the prize, they were several matches but it was all one shot
Hard to cheat then.

 

[Rifleman1776]

NO it is not. The target has not been physically changed. For the targets to be truly the same for every competitor, disallowing diopters means some competitors will not be shooting at the "same" targets as those with perfect eyes according to your logic.

Since the competition I shoot in requires the use of iron sights of period type and allows diopters to be able to see them, I'm ok with diopters and no magnification. If it ever goes to "no diopters", I'll quit. There's no point in attempting to shoot when you can't see the sights.

Correct. A spotting sight is not cheating. Even in hunting we often aim at a spot other than where we want the point of impact.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Correct. A spotting sight is not cheating. Even in hunting we often aim at a spot other than where we want the point of impact.

Correct me if I have miss understood your reply. In hunting one does not place a spotting sight by the critter they are after. In competition, the spotting sight is placed in reference to the target ahead of the shooting. Again, as I have said on previous replies, it is up to the club to rule as they so choose.
Larry

 

[TFoley]

Correct. A spotting sight is not cheating. Even in hunting we often aim at a spot other than where we want the point of impact.

Larry (Omaha) and I are of the same opinion. Does the prepositioning of an aiming mark occur in ANY target sport? Trail walking? Field archery? I think not, Sir.

Let me say to you that if you turn up at a trail walk, and ask the RCO if it's OK to go around measuring the distance to the target so you can put a marker out to make sure you hit the target - would that be fair and reasonable to the other shooters who rely on their skill and judgement and Kentucky windage to make the shot?

I say not.

You say differently.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

But once again I will state it is done in table and chunk gun matches....

 

[jimhallam]

I don't see anything wrong with that. Chunk and table shooters do something similar all the time.

Because they DO it doesn't make it right !

 

[jimhallam]

Those are legal. They are not peep sights.

But you PEEP through them ! Stuck on YOU or fixed on the bundhook, the optical effect is still the same. (Retired Head of Science Dept - Senior High School)

 

[SDSmlf]

But you PEEP through them ! Stuck on YOU or fixed on the bundhook, the optical effect is still the same. (Retired Head of Science Dept - Senior High School)

Guess that corrective glasses and contacts would also have that ‘optical effect’ and thus would be banned by your standard.

Personally, I have always considered Merit disc type additions to one’s eyeglasses as part of the eyeglasses. Something added to the gun itself, like a peep sight is completely different.

 

[Kodiak13]

Dang...Moses cheated too!

 

[Uncle Miltie]

For chunk gun matches, Kentucky windage is not necessary.

Because they DO it doesn't make it right !

Slug gun shooters almost always turn their targets around to shoot them as well.

 

[flntlokr]

Be careful about listing those you don't know as cheaters. My group consistently outshot most and we constantly heard rumors about cheating concerning us. So low and behold one day after we all turned in our score sheets I was informed there was a tie between me and the clubs best shooter(this guy was the loudest about us cheating) I could see this was a setup!
We both stepped to the line and I could hear the jeering from his friends. Range was unknown (at least to me)...I shot first and scored a perfect 10X while he hit paper for no score!!! Never heard anymore crap from those guys!!!

I am always careful. In the case of frequently suspected folks, I simply asked if a couple of less experienced shooters could join them so that expert help would be present if something went South. Nobody got called down, and the noobies wern't told to 'keep an eye on them' . Nobody got p'd off, and it had the desired effect; folks stopped muttering about cheaters.

 

[Rudall]

But you PEEP through them ! Stuck on YOU or fixed on the bundhook, the optical effect is still the same. (Retired Head of Science Dept - Senior High School)

The salient point is that if the aperture/dioptre/pin hole is stuck on the rifle it forms part of the sight setup, moving in tandem with the foresight, and is thus an aiming aid. If it is stuck on you, then it is simply a viewing aid.

 

[Robby]

Engaging in fair competition make a man a better shooter. These days we don't have any blackpowder shoots around here. I would gladly shoot with a bunch of cheaters just to engage in the sport once more.
Robby

 

[Tenmile]

We had a senior member in our club who had Redfield Olympic sights on a caplock. Nobody complained and I don’t think it helped him much. It may be subjective but to me cheating is when you try to circumvent the rules on the sly. If what you’re doing is accepted then you may just have an advantage rather than cheating. I still use open iron sights, but I don’t have a problem with someone using something to help see.

 

[jdw276]

I do not get so far into the weeds as to sights etc for or shoots. Simple off hand or bench shooting. It is more about fellowship and friendship and that is what i emphasize the most. This is not a state championship, territorial or friendship national shoot. Want to stop cheating, quit giving a prize or annual shooter award etc. Tell em thanks for participating, i really hope you enjoyed the fellowship and weather. You will quickly find out what is most important to folks who are shooting. Or just surprise em with no award one time. I mean you get 10 shooters if you break into categories, off hand bench, flint, percussion etc you may literally be competing against yourself. Yes i have folks tell me they will not shoot against peeps vs fixed sights. They do not show up either. Guess what, who is losing out the most?

 

[Enfield58]

Cheating goes on everywhere. That doesn't make it right; only that honest people have to be more vigilant.

Locks are made for honest people. Steel bars and jail cells are made for the people that break the locks.

If you go to YouTube you will see one of the commentators say that they "won" $300,000 in one tournament in 2021.

WARNING: Strong language. Viewer discretion advised.

 

[tenngun]

But you PEEP through them ! Stuck on YOU or fixed on the bundhook, the optical effect is still the same. (Retired Head of Science Dept - Senior High School)

A cheat is when it’s snuck around the rules.
Rules don’t have to be logical, as long as all players have the same chance.
Many smoothbore guns had rear sights. About ten percent of know trade guns had a rear sight added.
Many smoothbore matches Disavow them even though they are historically correct.
If the rules don’t mention it it’s not a cheat, it would only be cheating if you put one on in a way it wasn’t obvious and hid it from the other shooters
Show me fire contest and you pull out a Bic, is only cheating if the other contestants set the rule before hand, after all it is flint and steel.