Chip of wood coming off behind barrel tang

[RonRC]

As a novice rock lock shooter, I seek help for a problem on my flintlock.
Just behind the tang at the back of the barrel, there is a significant size piece of the stock starting to separate:

The piece of wood was cracked when I bought the rifle, and someone at a muzzleloader shoot suggested that I fill the crack next to the tang with a flexible wood caulk. That is what I did and you can see the line of caulk. I suppose the flexible material was suggested to absorb the shock of recoil so the wood would not separate more.
As you can see, it has bulged out a bit from the stock.
So, should I ignore the chip! Should I attempt to repair it myself in some fashion? Should I head over to an as yet unspecified gunsmith for repair?
Thank you,
Ron

 

[Len Graves]

Unfortunately that chip is not an unusual problem. As you can see the grain goes straight back from the tang rather than follow the curve of the tang. The cure given by your friend is one I hadn't thought of, but a good one. I think you just didn't go far enough, or the chip was already loose. I think I would open up the area behind the tang a little more , clean out what old glue is under the chip and glue it back in. You can hold in place with electrical tape while glueing. Then with a little more clearance put your "rubber" filler back in. One thing to make sure of is your tang bolt is secure. A loose tang bolt can let the barrel move enough to do that damage. Probably there are many more"fixes" that others may have. I would like to hear them also as I have hade that problem brought to me before. Good luck.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Wat Len said, except this part:

Then with a little more clearance put your "rubber" filler back in.

I would leave the gap there. Just make sure the back of the tang does not contact wood. And especially make sure your tang screw is tight. The breech of the barrel should snug up against wood and absorb the recoil. Is it?

 

[Vaino]

Your problem is that the rear of the tang didn't have any clearance when the breech end of the bbl was up against the stock.....in fact there probably was some interference. Always provide .010 clearance behind the tang and also provide a lot of draft to the rear vertical surface of the tang.

Remove the "stuff" behind the tang, make sure that the breech end of the bbl is solidly against the wood and provide clearance behind the tang. Then either splice in a piece of wood or if possible,reglue the present chip......Fred

 

[RonRC]

Thank you all for your astute suggestions!!

I should have time tomorrow to check the security of the tang bolt and try the suggestions of creating a buffer space behind the tang.

Ron

 

[Birddog6]

Lets back up here just a bit.

The problem in not the chip or the tang. :idunno:

The Problem is the barrel MOVED...... The barrel is not set in the stock properly at the breech, thus the Barrel moved when recoil occurs & that is what caused the tang to chip out the wood.

SAVE THE CHIP. Remove the barrel & glue the chip back in.

Then bed just behind the breech & tang area so you have some support behind the barrel.

Then scrape about .010" clearance behind the tang between the end of the tang & the chip that broke out. Fix that gap with Kiwi Paste Shoe Wax or patch grease.

BE CAREFULL bedding it in, as you could easily end up with the barrel locked into the stock. YOu have to fill ALL voids on the barrel, holes, etc with Modelers Clay, then make sure you have a good coat of release agent on the breech area of the barrel, tang, etc.

Keith Lisle

Note: The tang bolt is NOT supposed to keep the barrel from going back, it is there to hold the breech of the barrel Down into the stock. The tang bolt should have clearance in the wood, as not to stress the wood. Lock bolts also should have clearance, as not to stress the wood.

 

[RonRC]

Very interesting!
This is quite the learning experience for me.

Thank you,
Ron

 

[Zonie]

Hopefully, it will be a good learning experience for the other new builders here too.

It's a good idea to always have a small gap between the back end of the tang even with a well inlet barrel.

 

[Patocazador]

Then bed just behind the breech & tang area so you have some support behind the barrel.
Then scrape about .010" clearance behind the tang between the end of the tang & the chip that broke out.
Keith Lisle

If the barrel and tang have been bedded (Acraglas), should the .010" clearance be behind the metal of the tang or behind the end of the bedding? :hmm:

 

[don hepler]

I sometimes refer to myself as master of disaster.
I would have to add a piece of metal to the tang and inlet it where the chip is. The tang is already scratched, so welding on a piece wouldn't hurt anything. It's an area that's very noticeable. But I agree with others, I'd make sure the barrel is seated correctly. Just a suggestion.

 

[kaintuck]

accuglass :grin:
and read the instructions with the kit..... :stir:

after bedding, that barrel won't EVER move again..........and If you think you want to stiffin the wrist, while the barrel is out....a LONG drill bit can be used to drill down thru the area, then either a long screw, or a accuglass coat metal rod inserted.
there are ways to stabilize the area....from a way not visible....save the putty for windows :rotf:
marc

 

[gland]

Thanks Kieth :thumbsup:

I was beginnin to get confused there for a minute!

 

[Tinker2]

If it is a nice gun I would have a professional fix it, if not you got good advice and you can do it.




William Alexander

 

[RonRC]

I have removed the barrel.
It looks like the chip had been removed and glued back in some time in the past. The screw through the tang and into the wood was tight, but goes in at an angle from back (stock) to the front.
I am very nervous about doing any bedding given that I tried bedding a barrel on an inexpensive rifle (thank goodness) and even after adding releasing material, still had a disaster on my hands.
I am going to be very cautious and conservative with this repair.
Thank you all for you help,
Ron

 

[vulture]

I have never tried to bed an entire barrel before, and wont, but I have used bedding to fill in a number of places where I have made mistakes in building stocks, usually right behind the barrel, and around the barrel lug mortise on a Russian Nagant rifle I built a new stock for. If you are careful in your prep work, making sure all of the holes and crevices are filled with clay or putty, yes I have used plumers putty before and it worked just fine, any non hardening clay like material will work, then apply two or three coats of release agent, and I have even coated the metal in grease and had it release just fine, just a mess to work with where as the release agent is nice stuff. My breachplug had the rear lock bult hole drilled through it so I had to fill the hole, pluss fill the rear of the barrel nice and smooth, then I painted two good coats of release agent on and let it dry for several hours, then mixed and applied the bedding compound, set the rifle at an agle with the butt end down and let it harden. It was tight getting the barrel out but with some carefull tapping and lifting it finally let go and I had a perfect mortise for the breach to set in.

 

[Birddog6]

Between the end of the tang & whatever butts up against it, be it wood or bedding that squeezed out of there.
The idea is to relieve the tang from stress against the wood on the end of it & not punch the chip loose again.

Keith Lisle

 

[Birddog6]

Adding a piece to the tang may cover it & work OK, depending on exact chip size.

However, still have to deal with the barrel moving upon recoil & that must be addressed to. Address the problem first, then go to the repair.

And since he may not be experienced in building, adding to the tang & not losing any meat on the tang in the process, may not be something he can do. :idunno: It is already inlet, so the end result must be the same or wider in width & longer could cover the chip. Actually need a photo directly above it to see if that would even work.

Keith Lisle

 

[54ball]

Looks to me like it still may in the "square".

How about more shots of the rifle especially from the lock back on both sides. Top view and bottom view would help too.

What would be nice to see is the wrist and comb line to the butt.

It may be very possible to...

#1 set the barrel at the breech... making sure that the breech end of the barrel has good contact and support with the breech of the stock. Bedding is a simpler repair but this may be an option for you.

#2 IF and it's a big if, there is enough extra wood in the wrist, and the breech plug is thick enough, and if it will not detrimentally affect the architecture....

It may the possible to shape the wrist to where the chipped area and the end portion of the tang is filed is filed away into a pleasing curve.

Since it looks like it a little unfinished in that area, that may be possible.

Now this would be a very advanced way to repair it basically your rebuilding the rifle or more accurately properly finishing it. So it should not be attempted with out a good deal of study.

 

[Davemuzz]

#2 IF and it's a big if, there is enough extra wood in the wrist, and the breech plug is thick enough, and if it will not detrimentally affect the architecture....

It may the possible to shape the wrist to where the chipped area and the end portion of the tang is filed is filed away into a pleasing curve.

Since it looks like it a little unfinished in that area, that may be possible.

Now this would be a very advanced way to repair it basically your rebuilding the rifle or more accurately properly finishing it. So it should not be attempted with out a good deal of study.

I agree with this. I think this may be the best way to go and then you can toss that little chip. With the right approach it would look like it was designed that way...well, because you designed it that way.

Dave

 

[RonRC]

I thought I might start simple and only get more complex if simple doesn't work.
As a first attempt to solve the problem,I removed the chip, cleaned up the area below and around it, and trimmed back the straight edge of the chip ever so slightly. I slid it back a bit further on the stock than it had been. There is now a small space between the tang and the chip.
The test will happen the next time I shoot.
Ron