Choice of caliber given a ball size

[Some_Mook]

I have suggested modern lead free pewter many times on this forum. Makes a nice ball about the same hardness a lead and is readily available at yard sales etc. I shot some out of my 28 gauge and they shoot good

You find lead free pewter at yard sales? in the US? How much are you spending per pound of the stuff?

English pewter (Britannia 8) or Britannia Pewter International standard for lead free pewter (ASTM : B560-00) runs over $25.00 a pound from Roto-Metals and has a Brinell hardness rating of 23.5/11 and melts at 563° F / pours at 650° F

Pure soft lead (99.9%) runs about $13.00 for 5 pounds and has a Brinell rating of 5 and melts at 621° F

23.5 vs 5 doesn't seem 'about the same' to an idiot like me. Please elaborate.

 

[flconch53]

You find lead free pewter at yard sales? in the US? How much are you spending per pound of the stuff?

English pewter (Britannia 8) or Britannia Pewter International standard for lead free pewter (ASTM : B560-00) runs over $25.00 a pound from Roto-Metals and has a Brinell hardness rating of 23.5/11 and melts at 563° F / pours at 650° F

Pure soft lead (99.9%) runs about $13.00 for 5 pounds and has a Brinell rating of 5 and melts at 621° F

23.5 vs 5 doesn't seem 'about the same' to an idiot like me. Please elaborate.

ALL the new trophy mugs are made of armatell which is a lead free pewter like product. You can tell that because it doesn't turn dark gray like real pewter. It melts around 500 degrees or maybe a little less. I don't know the brinnel hardness of Armatell but you can dent it with a finger nail. I have only shot it in a smooth bore

 

[Janissary]

there it is. @Janissary , Please tell us what you want. Nobody can help with your indecisiveness

Eh? I do not intend to hunt deer with this gun, I stated so explicitly. This will not be a deer gun. I suggest ignoring post #13 of this thread as it appears to be confusing you.

 

[necchi]

It's not at all confusing whether you hunt or not.
What's confusing is your assumptions, many of which were made in your first post.
The primary one being "cheap ammo" as it would dictate the size of a "custom bore". And that your using a "rule of thumb" with your sizing consideration.
Why not just get a .62 bore(aka:20ga) like everyone else, and use the individual variables of patch thickness and lube properties to use with the powder type and charge that's available to you?
It's so much simpler that way. Many of us entered this sport/hobby because we grew weary of the predictable aspect of CF and store bought ammo, knowing we could "hand build" the conditions within all the variables, too achieve accuracy,, and,, to be able do so with the knowledge that what's available to us may change. There are even folks out there that will deliberately change one of the variables,, just so they can learn how to adapt the others to get that accuracy back.

So your struggle with "bore size" of a "custom barrel" to accommodate a certain size "available projectile" doesn't make much sense,(?) to those of us that have been shooting for awhile.
Why not just get a .62, and learn about how all the others have successfully shot the Hornady .570?

I mean honest, if the Hornady .570 did so poorly in a common .62 , why would Hornady still sell them and not offer a better fitting, more sale-able size?

 

[Janissary]

Why not just get a .62 bore(aka:20ga) like everyone else, and use the individual variables of patch thickness and lube properties to use with the powder type and charge that's available to you?

I just wanted to know what the best choice would be. If the barrel is made to order and I can get any caliber I want, then I would want to make the best choice possible, and I don't know if that's .59" or .62"... even though either would surely work, I'd like to maximize performance.

But anyway, as it happens I asked the builder just tonight and he stated that he does not make his own barrels, he gets a standard size of commercial barrel stock, which is 20 gauge. So of course that settles it for me, and you can ignore my unnecessary thread. I am glad that he uses a standard commercial product because it keeps the price down, I just wasn't aware of that previously.

Although I'm still curious, academically speaking, what you lose (if anything) by shooting the same size ball out of a larger bore.

 

[necchi]

academically speaking, what you lose (if anything) by shooting the same size ball out of a larger bore.

Again friend, your question is confusing.
I will presume you mean a .62 ball from a .62 bore, is that correct?
Academically, nothing, that would be a perfect situation. Ideally it would be a .63 ball in a .62 just to get that "press fit" of the soft lead to the bore.

Reality is different than academia. There are too many human variables to consider.
That's the fun!

 

[Grenadier1758]

I just wanted to know what the best choice would be. If the barrel is made to order and I can get any caliber I want, then I would want to make the best choice possible, and I don't know if that's .59" or .62"... even though either would surely work, I'd like to maximize performance.

But anyway, as it happens I asked the builder just tonight and he stated that he does not make his own barrels, he gets a standard size of commercial barrel stock, which is 20 gauge. So of course that settles it for me, and you can ignore my unnecessary thread. I am glad that he uses a standard commercial product because it keeps the price down, I just wasn't aware of that previously.

Although I'm still curious, academically speaking, what you lose (if anything) by shooting the same size ball out of a larger bore.

I understand that you want to be able to use the commercially available Hornady or Speer swaged balls and only 0.570" diameter is what is available. Casting your own round balls appears to be out of the question at this time. So, the option is to get the 24 gauge (0.580") smooth bore and develop the 0.570" load for that barrel. It will work. It just may not be a patched ball. Over powder cards or nests of tow (strands of coarse fiber) will function just fine. There's no need to get a 0.590" smooth bored barrel to match some notion of a requirement that the ball be 0.020" smaller in diameter than the bore.

 

[Brokennock]

..... So, the option is to get the 24 gauge (0.580") smooth bore and develop the 0.570" load for that barrel. It will work. It just may not be a patched ball. Over powder cards or nests of tow (strands of coarse fiber) will function just fine. There's no need to get a 0.590" smooth bored barrel to match some notion of a requirement that the ball be 0.020" smaller in diameter than the bore.

 

[Brokennock]

@Janissary , take note of what @Grenadier1758 just wrote. While it takes time and dedication, a good load can be developed for your smoothbore without a patch or overthinking the ratio of ball to bore size.
My 20 gauge smoothrifle shoots its best groups with a ball sandwiched between wads. After much experimentation I found that with the right powder charge and the right combination of wadding and cards, ball size doesn't matter that much. With my current loading it shoots equally well with .595, .600, or .610 balls when shooting offhand. Off the bench the .610 might have a slight advantage,,, but that is most likely because that is the ball I initially worked the load up for. And it is the ball size I use most because I want the extra weight/mass when hunting.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Not to belabor the issue further @Janissary, it will be easier to find 24 gauge wads and cards than figuring out how to make some for that future time that you want to be shooting shot.

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

Not to belay the issue further @Janissary, it will be easier to find 24 gauge wads and cards than figuring out how to make some for that future time that you want to be shooting shot.

You caught the part where the original premise of this thread that he is in a lead free state and was looking to have a rifle built around what he can get in lead free round balls right?

He has since found out that the builder uses standard calibers only and switched to asking about shooting those lead free undersized balls in what he can get.

 

[gemmer]

This is a first for me, Never heard of anyone picking a ball size to use and then having a custom barrel made to fit the ball. Wouldn't it be cheaper to use a standard caliber barrel that is available and then getting a ball to fit it? Even if you have to cast your own balls it isn't that expensive to get a mold and the pot and ladle to cast them and those are one time expenses that you can use forever.

Ditto.

 

[gemmer]

Cheap ammo? Does this guy know how much powder costs?

 

[Brokennock]

You caught the part where the original premise of this thread that he is in a lead free state and was looking to have a rifle built around what he can get in lead free round balls right?

He has since found out that the builder uses standard calibers only and switched to asking about shooting those lead free undersized balls in what he can get.

Huh?
He said he is looking to use the largest roundball Hornady offers for sale in a custom made smoothbore gun, not a rifle. And the o.p. said nothing about lead free anything,,, it specifically said Hornaday's largest roundball offering.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

58 cal isnt cheap, 40 or 45 is cheap. Make your own. We do.
More balls per pound. Less powder too. A rock to start everything is cheaper too.
You have better luck finding big foot than caps.

Custom barrel is a loaded word. Ive got a 45 cal 1:60 twist swamped, stress relieved, .012 radius grooved Rice barrel that is 42 inches long. Its not custom, tho it will out shoot me.

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

Huh?
He said he is looking to use the largest roundball Hornady offers for sale in a custom made smoothbore gun, not a rifle. And the o.p. said nothing about lead free anything,,, it specifically said Hornaday's largest roundball offering.

Post number 13 in the thread. If he'd had that in the opening statement/question it might have saved him some of the brandishing he got before he quit posting. @flconch53

 

[Brokennock]

Post number 13 in the thread. If he'd had that in the opening statement/question it might have saved him some of the brandishing he got before he quit posting. @flconch53

You mean where he says, "if" he were to deer hunt he would need lead free balls,,,,, but that he has no plans to deer hunt?

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

You mean where he says, "if" he were to deer hunt he would need lead free balls,,,,, but that he has no plans to deer hunt?

I'm going to bow out now. Went back and re-read the thread. Think my brain extrapolated an intent that wasn't there. A few posts above these he even stated to ignore post 13. My apologies gents.

 

[Brokennock]

I'm going to bow out now. Went back and re-read the thread. Think my brain extrapolated an intent that wasn't there. A few posts above these he even stated to ignore post 13. My apologies gents.

I think you are not the only one who found some confusion here, lol

 

[Janissary]

Second update. The maker is going to get the barrel custom drilled from 1040 steel, so I do have a choice of diameter after all. Because it turns out the commercial barrels in his country are too short and shipping one from overseas would be too expensive.

This will be mainly for target shooting and reenactment. I prefer to shoot without patches, but I'll try it both ways. Also I might try rabbit or bird hunting, but that will be with shot. For reasons of historical accuracy this will be either 15mm (0.59") or 16mm (0.63") bore. So my question is, will .570 lead round ball be less accurate or slower out of a .63" bore compared to a .59" bore.

20 gauge is precisely 0.615" so it's nearly in the middle between 0.59" and 0.63".