• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

Civil war guns terminal ballistics

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

JackAubrey

45 Cal.
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
586
Reaction score
5
Gentlemen,My friend is a trama surgeon and an avid history nut and b.p. shooter as am I.Naturally, his interest in the C.W. is medical in nature.We were discussing terminal ballistics and he was curious about the effects C.W. muskets,rifled muskets and revolvers had on the soldiers.I told him I had seen "Mathew Brady" type era photos on the History channel but have failed to locate these on the web.I have already tried the Civil War medicine museum and the U.S.Army museum of pathology to no avail.Could anyone direct me to a site which discusses and may even have pictures of the wounds produced by these weapons? Best regards,J.A.
 
You might try the Museum of the Confederacy, in Richmond. I was there a few months ago on a business trip and took a few hours one afternoon (not enough) to go through it. They had an entire room on CW medicine. I think they have an extensive archive of manuscripts, photos, etc. I don't know how much is available online... but the people I met (like everywhere I went in VA) working there were both gracious and helpful. Maybe an email would bring you more info.
[url] http://www.moc.org/site/PageServer[/url]

(P.S. My only gripe with Virginia is I could never find anyone who knew how to make hashbrowns worth a hoot) :blah:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Is there such a thing as hashbrowns being worth a hoot? Cornedbeef hash or roastbeef hash now your talking food.... Pass the ketchup!
 
There is a civil war museum in Franklin Tennessee. I recall seeing a large projectile lodged in the ankle bone of the recipient. That says something about velocity. There are a lot of pictures there of injuries.
I think amputation was the most oft used skill in those days.
 
poloman said:
I recall seeing a large projectile lodged in the ankle bone of the recipient. That says something about velocity. There are a lot of pictures there of injuries.
I think amputation was the most oft used skill in those days.

Me and a couple of camerads from the Schuetzenclub thougth about subject 'bout 2 years ago and had a long discussion about it.
Disscussion went hot and hotter, and some Phisicians joined in. Someone then had the ultimative idea :
We went to the slaughterhouse and bougth a rigt frontleg of a Cow.
We placed it on the Range about 60 yards away and fired with a Springfield Musket ( loaded with 2 1/2 drams b.p. ) at it.

The injuries, that .58 Minie's causing are terrible !

In / trough the flesh, it takes out ( on the back of the hitpoint ) pieces as big as a small coffeecup.

A bonehit destroys the whole bone .
It rips it apart.

This is, because the pure softlead bullet will flatten its tip more and more, how deeper it goes into a body.
Add the kinetic energy of the bare 500grains lead plus the velocity ...
Now you know why most wounded soldiers back in the days of Rifled muskets has to been amputatet if they was wounded in action...

As a resume of this little cowlg-experiment I was totally shocked. Before , I'd never would give/ think this force of destroying to an ML-gun.
Today I know much better !
 
DANGER! This gets graphic towards the end. Stop now if you're squemish!


historymed.jpg


http://www.civilwarhome.com/medicinehistory.htm

http://www.civilwarhome.com/civilwarmedicine.htm

http://www.civilwarhome.com/fieldhospitals.htm

Largely predominating on both sides were the wounds inflicted by the rifled musket, carrying its conical ball of an ounce or more in weight. These wounds differed in some important and very material characteristics from all gunshot wounds in preceding wars, including that with Mexico ; as well as those in our later experience with Spain, and those inflicted by the improved army-gun of the present day. The old round ball, of low velocity, caused many fractures in bones of the extremities. But it never produced such shattering, comminution, and amount of bone destruction and injury as did the heavy conical ball of increased velocity-both differing in character from the Mauser and Martini of the present day with their still greater increase of velocity-and its hardened or steel-jacketed projectile of smaller caliber, which often makes an almost clean-cut perforation, even through the shaft of a long bone.

The shattering, splintering, and splitting of a long bone by the impact of the minie or Enfield ball were, in many instances, both remarkable and frightful, and early experience taught surgeons that amputation was the only means of saving life. In the vicinity of a joint, the ends of the bone being more spongy, softer, and less brittle, the damage to the shaft of the bone was not so great, and the expedient of resection, largely resorted to and greatly developed by the surgeons, in many instances afforded a comparatively, if not perfectly, restored limb. Resections of the upper extremity afforded better results than those of the lower, although fairly good results were sometimes obtained in the case of the latter.

In some instances, I deemed it imperatively necessary to resort to a second, or even a third resection of the limb, even after the end of the bone had been sawn through, and while the patient was still under the influence of the anesthetic, the primary section furnishing the information that the bone had been shattered, splintered, or split higher up than could be ascertained at first. Conservative surgery was, I might say, almost, if not entirely, a universal principle with the Confederate surgeon; conservatism, first, as to the life of the wounded soldier, secondly, as to his future comfort and usefulness.

Conical-hall wounds in the abdomen were nearly always fatal, far more so than those produced by the round ball with lower velocity. The intestines, in the former case, were generally perforated; in the latter, they often escaped this injury by being pushed aside by the slower moving round ball fired from the smooth-bore gun. The reverse of this was the case in wounds of the chest, since the round ball bruised and lacerated a large area of lung tissue, while the more swiftly moving conical ball often produced a clean-cut wound.


Source: "The Photographic History of the Civil War" Volume IV, article by Deering J. Roberts, M.D., Surgeon, Confederate States Army

No images on the site, but if you could locate that book . . .

This last site has more images than I can (or probably should) post here, and some grizzly accounts and exhibits.

http://nmhm.washingtondc.museum/exhibits/nationswounds/index.html

This is a painted photo from 1863, not a model or mock-up. This is the real deal.

wrist_lg.jpg


sickles_lg.jpg


burgan1.jpg
 
Very interesting post Stumpy! I like the fact that the writer believed the minie ball was a higher velocity projectile than a roundball.
I suspect that minies tended to tumble on impact, since they weren't very stable before impact.
I recall reading somewhere that surgons felt the .36 round ball did more damage than the pointed conicals issued for the .44's.
 
One thing that I haven't noticed mentioned (maybe I missed it), is the amount of foreign materials that the slow moving conicals and RB's carried into the wounds. Fast moving pointed and/or jacketed bullets are moving too fast and are "slicker" and don't tend to do this. The CW lead projectiles would "grab" clothing,leather,dirt,etc,and take it into the wound channel.
 
Hence still more amputations than would have been the case, otherwise. Even if the wounded area wasn't ripped and broken beyond repair, it would almost certainly infect. Amputation was the best preventive care that most surgeons of the time were able to give, due to their ignorance of or inability to provide protection from germs.

The whole point of conical bullets (to use the term somewhat loosely) in "modern" muzzleloaders is their devastatingly increased ballistics, versus roundball. The discussion takes on an entirely new degree of unpleasantness (utterly removed from the fire and brimstone which falls on the head of anyone who speaks tolerantly, let alone kindly, of the "modern" guns) when it turns to those ballistics being applied to human flesh and bone.
 
Mmmmm hashbrowns. Bacon grease, diced potatoes, some chopped onion and ground black pepper. Sorry I'm off topic, I just couldn't help it.
 
Jaeger, you are making me hungry! lol.
I got to see first hand what a 58 caliber conical shot out of a CW gun will do deer hunting this year. The second deer I got, I hit in the back leg, the Maxi Hunter traveled up its femur (leg bone) and exited out the back rump. The entire rump of the deer looked like hamburger. It literally looked like it had been stuck in a meat grinder.
The bravery of those soldiers in the CW is beyond words. They saw what those 58 calibers would do and still stood in open ground exchanging gunfire.

I've been a Respiratory Therapist for 18 years. The gunshot wounds I see in the emergency room vary depending on what gun is used and the tissue it hits. There have been times we literally had to search for the exit bullet wound, they are so small and still kill a person. I'm glad the 58 caliber isn't used anymore, we wouldn't have much trouble finding those exit wounds. When I was in RT school, we had to do a autopsy. The Dr. we did them with was one of the Dr.s who performed JFK's. Very interseting gentlemen. He would take every RT class into the basement of the hospital and shoot different guns into different materials to show the damage done. It amazed me doing the autopsy how deer organs are almost the exact same size as humans.
 
That large quote pretty much sums it up. One book I have on CW guns talked about the effect of the Minnie on both sides. While it had been used in the Crimea, there was little experience with it in the US. Wounds were so massive that both sides accused the other of using explosive bullets. Consider that a 280 grain roundball loses much of its velocity by a hundred yards. The Minnie, weighing nearly twice that, is still lethal at 600. Couple more accurate rifles and Napoleonic battle formations where shots are under a hundred yards and you get a recipe for sheer disaster. The Civil War was a test bed and eye opener for a lot of military powers. It's been hailed as the first "modern" war.

RedFeather
 
Thank you for the posts,particularly from you,Stumpkiller.I showed these to my friend and it seems to have created more interest for him.Gastly,say I.best regards,J.A.
 
Stumpy, thanks for posting this! I found the last paragraph of your quote particularly interesting:

"Conical-hall wounds in the abdomen were nearly always fatal, far more so than those produced by the round ball with lower velocity. The intestines, in the former case, were generally perforated; in the latter, they often escaped this injury by being pushed aside by the slower moving round ball fired from the smooth-bore gun. The reverse of this was the case in wounds of the chest, since the round ball bruised and lacerated a large area of lung tissue, while the more swiftly moving conical ball often produced a clean-cut wound."

If we assume that deer react somewhat like humans to being shot with a muzzleloader, doesn't this mean that the roundball is a better projectile for the hunter who aims at the lung area to begin with?

Steve
 
Jack,
There is a Civil War Medical Museum in Frederick, Maryland. They have a number of pictures of the wounds that were caused by various means. There is also displays on the early embalmers that started in that period.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top