Cleaning Advice.....?

[Texas77]

Hi folks,

I'm new to muzzleloading and my recent puchases was a Parker Hale 3 band Enfield 1853. Overall I'm very pleased, I was told it had only been fired a couple of times. Well, I decided to take a flash light and try and look down the bore. The bore itself is spotless and real shiny - brand new, however right at the bottom at the breach I can see a few nasty rust spots. Now considering these have been there for more than 30 years is this a major problem? - should the breach be removed to clean for safety reasons?
What's the best way to clean this up and stop any further corrosion? I have ballistol and use this for most of my gun cleaning.

Thanks

P.S. Is this rust issue that big a deal for muzzleloaders? When it starts will it continue to eat you barrel away? If I can stop it for the most part I'll be happy and can sleep at night :wink:

 

[grizzy adams]

get the barrel clean as possible , then use some kind of oil like wd40 etc , i use fluid film , spray some on patch and wipe barrel , if it real rusty , soak a patch wiff the oil swap it but leave the ramrod wiff oil soaked patch still in barrel , overnite or a few days , then check it should loosen up some rust ,then clean it again , mite have to do diss soak and clean a few times, then posish the bore , using jb bore clean , if you dont have none , tooth paste works , depends on how much rust is in there.

 

[Zonie]

Congratulations on getting your Enfield.

First off, I will say, no, you do not want to remove the breech plug. Traditional muzzleloaders are not designed for this and doing it can damage your breech plug or the barrel.

If you have removed all of the loose rust and most of the not loose rust simply oiling the rust that is left will prevent further rust.

If you clean the guns bore with soapy water and you do not oil it then yes, the rusty area will be wet and rusting will start all over again unless you dry the water out of the remaining rust and then oil it.
I usually heat up the breech of my barrel over my gas range after cleaning to dry out any trace of water that may be in the nooks, crannies and threads in the breech. I oil the bore while it is still hot using Birchwood Casey Barricade. A most excellent rust preventative.

Put simply, as long as you make sure the bore is oiled with a good rust preventative gun oil you don't need to worry.

Generally speaking, yes, rust is a major problem with a muzzleloader but only if the gun is not cleaned after it has been fired.

Unfortunately, a lot of modern shooters are not aware that the fouling left by black powder and the substitute black powders readily absorbs water from the air and once dampened it is a strong corrosive.
In a damp environment it only takes a day or less for the bore to start rusting if it isn't cleaned.

Many once excellent guns are ruined by these people who think they can ignore cleaning like they do with their modern smokeless guns.

Anyway, have a good nights sleep and don't worry about it.

 

[woodse guy]

No matter what you think after you shoot your gun and want to clean it up WATER is your friend. Being a duck hunter water is bad right heard that all my life. Took a little while to get it through my head but with a muzzle loader water is your friend for cleaning just make sure you get your barrel dry before you oil like Zonie said.

 

[Enfield 1858]

Once I get mine clean and dry I use a blow dryer at the muzzle and nipple hole. I stand it in the corner muzzle down overnight sitting on a patch. I check it the next morning just to be sure, and let my mop covered in bore butter sit in the sun for awhile before running it down the barrel several times.

What's best for removing any lead that might be in the grooves?

 

[Zonie]

There are several different lead removers made for use in firearms. Most of them work pretty good when used with a brush.

Speaking of brushes, do not get the cheap kind.
While they may work on a gun where most of the brushing involves pushing it thru the bore, with a muzzleloader pulling it back out can take a lot of force and the threaded end tends to pull off leaving the body and bristles stuck down in the bore.

Also, if your gun has a wooden ramrod it is imperative that the metal end of the ramrod be pinned onto the wooden shaft or it too will pull off.

As for your bore butter, if it works for you as a rust preventative your lucky. Many have found that it doesn't work for them.
A good rust preventative like Birchwood Caseys Barricade does not leave a wet surface and it prevents rust in the worst areas of the country.

Oh, if the bristles on your brush pull off down in the bore, get a piece of copper, brass, aluminum or steel tubing that just fits inside the barrel. Force it down over the bristles and then pull the remains of the brush out.

 

[DanC]

...Speaking of brushes, do not get the cheap kind....Also, if your gun has a wooden ramrod it is imperative that the metal end of the ramrod be pinned onto the wooden shaft or it too will pull off.

Oh, if the bristles on your brush pull off down in the bore, get a piece of copper, brass, aluminum or steel tubing that just fits inside the barrel. Force it down over the bristles and then pull the remains of the brush out.

Wow, a lot of good info there Zonie ... :hatsoff:

I use a metal cleaning rod with my bore brush, but I also use a brass bore guide with it to prevent abrasion at the muzzle.

Dan C

 

[Sinner]

Once I get mine clean and dry I use a blow dryer at the muzzle and nipple hole. I stand it in the corner muzzle down overnight sitting on a patch. I check it the next morning just to be sure, and let my mop covered in bore butter sit in the sun for awhile before running it down the barrel several times.

What's best for removing any lead that might be in the grooves?

I do not know if it can still be bought as readily as years past, but mercury will take any lead out of your barrel like magic. It's not really, though. The lead amalgamates with the mercury. You would plug the nipple, pour a little mercury in the barrel, plug the muzzle, then slowly rotate and tip the barrel to allow the mercury to run over all surfaces. Then pour the mercury out into a container and skim the lead off the surface. The mercury can be used over and over. There are serious precautions to follow, though, such as DO NOT heat it, ingest it, etc.

 

[silverfox]

Now that you brought it up. Mercury does wonders on stuck balls. I mean if all other methods have failed a little down on top of the ball let it set and them use your puller. Pour the mercury out first. This worked on a ball stuck for about a year when all else failed, took about and hour of soaking and it came right out.

 

[RedFeather]

Mercury is considered a hazardous substance nowadays. Someone spilled a small amount in the hallway of a local school and they evacuated it, then called in a full hazmat team. I'm not sure you can even buy it any longer and, IIRC, the price is getting way up there. Plus how do you dispose of the lead tainted mercury? They don't even want you to toss florescent lights in the regular trash now, and those contain traces of mercury, not a barrel's worth.

I second the bit about wire brushes sticking. Was using a .41 Magnum brush in a .45 bore the other night and got about half an inch down the bore when it got stuck. Had to pull it with pliers. Those thin bristles grab like you wouldn't believe. Ended up using a much smaller brush wrapped with 0000 steel wool(the bristles wind it up easily) and gun oil. Cleans pretty well.

Has anyone tried Naval Jelly to remove rust? I know you have to flush it out as it is mostly acid.

The hair dryer works very well if set on high and slowly worked over the barrel. Don't have a gas stove, so that's what I use.

 

[Zonie]

Your right. Naval Jelly is an acid and although it removes rust nicely it will also start etching the steel surface it is on.

Because of this etching, I do not recommend it for use inside of a guns bore.

As we all know, all browning and bluing is rust so getting Naval Jelly on the outside of the barrel will instantly ruin the finish.

 

[Sinner]

you don't get rid of the mercury. I still have mine from the 80,s. You just skim the lead off the top of it.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The reason you find it next to impossible to buy liquid mercury these days is that the fumes are highly toxic, and mercury stays in the liver and kidneys, and eventually will be fatal.

I would not recommend using mercury to clean lead from barrels , when there are so many other, Non-toxic, and safer means to do the same cleaning.

I worked in an office building that had an old Grandfather's Clock in the lobby, next to my office door. The pendulum weight in the clock was a glass tube, about 3" in diameter, about 6 inches tall, filled with liquid mercury. I worked there about 19 year, and saw that mercury lose about 1/16" of that mercury during that time. Shortly after I began working there, the man who owned the clock had someone come in and clean it, and then adjust the weight to get the clock to keep better time.

The man told me that all that was wrong with the clock was that the mercury was evaporating and that the clock's weight had to be steady to make the clock's gears work in time, and register the correct time on the dial. About a 1/4" of mercury was gone from the glass tube- easily seen on the glass, when I first saw it. The owner had a spare glass tube, in case the first tube broke. Neither had a top on them. NO provision was made to replace the lost( through evaporation) mercury. Because the pendulum was INSIDE a clock case, and that air circulation was minimum- only when the case was opened to wind the clock did any air leave or enter the case-- I suspect that the mercury fumes in the building were minimal. However, the air in the building was never tested, nor were any of the people who worked in the building.

My father had a very small vial of mercury, that he used in cleaning hard to reach electric circuitry connections. He always wore rubber gloves, and a mask when he handled the stuff, and warned my brother and me not to attempt to pick up any of it, is something broke, or spilled. If you insist on handling mercury, don't get it on you skin, and don't breathe in the fumes. Dad's advice is still good. :hmm: :shocked2: :thumbsup:

 

[Paul R]

It's scarey to think about all the neat things we were shown to do with mercury, by the school science teacher. Of course, that was 50+ years ago, Carbon tetrachloride was pretty handy stuff to have around, too. I've handled both with my bare hands.

Both are insidious poisons, we know now.

 

[Sinner]

Yes, it is good advice, then and now. There is a reason old-time hatters were called "mad-hatters". However, with knowledge of the dangers and common sense, mercury is safe to handle. Getting mercury on your skin is only harmful if you then ingest it or you have breaks in your skin allowing it to enter your blood. Mercury kept in a closed, dark container in a cool area will not evaporate. Using mercury to clean a barrel without heating it will not expose you to harmful "fumes". I suppose this part of the discussion could go the way of "to blow or not to blow", but my only intent is to make aware the options, potential dangers, and ways to handle mercury safely if it is used. I dare to say it will clean a barrel of lead better and quicker than any other method; but I concede it most likely has greater risks.

 

[Jim Fitzgibbon]

My My how have I lived to be 65?When I was a kid
we use to shine coins with mercury with our bare
hands.

I made header gaskets from asphaitus.How many
brake jobs I did also with asphaitus brake linings
& just blow that back powder out with a air hose?

Now we are told not to handle lead!Mmmmmmmmm.

Did I say I made it to be 65 years of age? :idunno: Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[RedFeather]

Sadly, some of those guys who did a lot of brake work died of things like asbestosis. Ask Steve McQueen who did shipyard insulation as a kid. Some of the old school things are probably best left in the past. As Paul rightly pointed out, there are equally effective, safer methods available today. I used to "make pennies into dimes" back in the day, too. Can still remember that uniquely greasy feeling. Wouldn't do it now, knowing what I know.

Back to cleaning. What's a good brush to use in scrubbing one of these neglected bores? I tried a .41 magnum copper brush in a .45 and almost couldn't get it out, just barely started. A smaller brush had too little resistance to do any scraping. Is there a different kind of brush? So far, I'm limited to steel wool wrapped around a smaller brush.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Some of us have lead very lucky lives so far. We used to clean pennies with "COKE"( ie. Cocoa-Cola). Vinegar is cheaper, and does just as good a job- add a bit of salt to the vinegar, and just wipe the compound on your copper. There are lots of things we did when we were kids that were harming us.

When I worked for my town's public works department after my freshman year at college, I was sent out to kill weeds with an insecticide in a spray can, with no gloves or mask, and later learned it contained Arsenic. No wonder I had stomach problems for months after that. I was lucky that I was healthy enough, and active enough that the poisons worked their way out of my system over several months.

I don't know about what happened to the asbestos I breathed in over those early years, cutting the stuff with a carpenter's saw, or working with the product around brakes, and pipes, where it was used as insulation. It may get me yet. We simply did not know enough about those products back then to even ASK if they were dangerous to our health, and if so, HOW TO PROTECT ourselves from the products.

I am also told that there are more Carcinogens in soft woods, like pine, than in cigarettes, yet our ancestors, thru the 1950s, depending to a large extent on wood burning stoves and furnaces to heat their homes. Any early man huddled around open fires in caves, breathing in all that smoke, and those foreign substances. Its always been a wonder to me that the human race ever made it this far, particularly when you hear about all the dangers of breathing in "second hand" smoke.

It couldn't Be that some folks are over-Stating the dangers of products to us :idunno: :surrender: :thumbsup: , now, could it??? :shocked2:

 

[Jim Fitzgibbon]

Fellows I'm in no way saying we should not heed
the warnings.But I think many times the goverment
goes way to far that's all I'm saying.

Fly :yakyak:

 

[Huntin_Dawg1215]

Fly, sometimes I think you are right!