Cleaning - Fouling swelling mid-clean

[Nuthatch]

When cleaning my smoothbore, the fouling seems to grow minute by minute during the cleaning process & I'm curious why. It seems never-ending, too. 20 patches later and I'm still getting brown out. It doesn't happen with my rifle. I use Pyrodex for both. I clean them the same way -- remove barrel, remove nipple, soak in a bucket of hot soapy water, swab with a bronze wire brush, swab with a patch, let sit a few min & then swab until the patches come out clean. My rifle takes about 5 patches to clean it well. The smoothbore will go through 20 and still look as bad as the 3rd or 4th. Oddly, if I swab until it's mostly clean and then let it sit for a couple of minutes, the next patch is covered in brown fouling again. The only thing that seems to work to stop the brown fouling from coming back is WD40. No amount of soap & water or alcohol will do it. Hoppes 9 won't cut it either.

My smoothbore gets used as a shotgun, too. For that, I've used wads, cards & such soaked in olive oil. Cards are cut from cardstock paper. Wads are from either cork, leather or felt. The felt is likely a poly blend (furniture pads) but I only use it over the shot -- never over the powder. I suspect the brown fouling is related to burning olive oil. But I'm open to other explanations, too.

Any ideas what this brown fouling is and how best to deal with it, other than WD40?

 

[SlidePicker]

Could it be rust? I've had problems with a thin film like browning developing inside the chambers of my Colt Walker replica during cleaning, after shooting with both BP and Pyrodex, using very hot water and Ivory Snow soap powder. I've read about "steam corrosion" and wondered if some such was going on, but that doesn't make sense as we boil rusty steel to do rust bluing. I've cleaned up several rusty guns by boiling the steel parts and rubbing off the surface rust with a towel, leaving rust blue where the rusty spots were. I believe that Pyrodex is far more corrosive than BP, as it contains potassium perchlorate as the biggest part of its oxidizer. That leaves behind potassium chloride, the same stuff as corrosive primers make, in much greater amount.

 

[SlidePicker]

Hmm. Search this forum for "flash rust." It's a well known phenomenon seen when cleaning with hot water. Using cool or tepid water avoids it.

 

[Brokennock]

I doubt it is the olive oil.
Could be flash rust from the hot water, but I have doubts there too.
Even though they aren't on the powder, I'm a little suspicious of those furniture pad wads.

What do you coat the bore with for storage?

I always found my smoothbores to clean easier than my rifle. But I also never used pyrodex in my smoothbores.
I'll be curious to see what the problem and solution is if one is found.

 

[smoothshooter]

When cleaning my smoothbore, the fouling seems to grow minute by minute during the cleaning process & I'm curious why. It seems never-ending, too. 20 patches later and I'm still getting brown out. It doesn't happen with my rifle. I use Pyrodex for both. I clean them the same way -- remove barrel, remove nipple, soak in a bucket of hot soapy water, swab with a bronze wire brush, swab with a patch, let sit a few min & then swab until the patches come out clean. My rifle takes about 5 patches to clean it well. The smoothbore will go through 20 and still look as bad as the 3rd or 4th. Oddly, if I swab until it's mostly clean and then let it sit for a couple of minutes, the next patch is covered in brown fouling again. The only thing that seems to work to stop the brown fouling from coming back is WD40. No amount of soap & water or alcohol will do it. Hoppes 9 won't cut it either.

My smoothbore gets used as a shotgun, too. For that, I've used wads, cards & such soaked in olive oil. Cards are cut from cardstock paper. Wads are from either cork, leather or felt. The felt is likely a poly blend (furniture pads) but I only use it over the shot -- never over the powder. I suspect the brown fouling is related to burning olive oil. But I'm open to other explanations, too.

Any ideas what this brown fouling is and how best to deal with it, other than WD40?

You are getting flash rust.
Skip the hot water. Cold is fine. You may even be able to skip the bucket thing, too. Use 70% isopropyl alcohol for all your cleaning.
Wait a few minutes for traces of the alcohol to evaporate, then run a couple of oily patches up and down the bore and around the lock and you are done.
If you use the alcohol you can skip the soap too.
Unless you just like cleaning muzzleloaders, a good cleaning job should not take longer than 15 minutes; sometimes 10 minutes.
Go back and look your gun over 3 to 5 days later inside and out for rust forming from any fouling you may have missed if you have not been out shooting again.

Most people make too much of a chore out of cleaning their guns. But if that is what floats your boat, go for it.

 

[SlidePicker]

You are getting flash rust.
Skip the hot water. Cold is fine. You may even be able to skip the bucket thing, too. Use 70% isopropyl alcohol for all your cleaning.
Wait a few minutes for traces of the alcohol to evaporate, then run a couple of oily patches up and down the bore and around the lock and you are done.
If you use the alcohol you can skip the soap too.
Unless you just like cleaning muzzleloaders, a good cleaning job should not take longer than 15 minutes; sometimes 10 minutes.
Go back and look your gun over 3 to 5 days later inside and out for rust forming from any fouling you may have missed if you have not been out shooting again.

Most people make too much of a chore out of cleaning their guns. But if that is what floats your boat, go for it.

Smoothshooter, I've never heard of this method. I've read since the '60s that water is necessary to get the fouling out and prevent rust. Will your method work in a humid climate? I'm here to learn.

 

[Archer 756]

What is humid climate if one cleaning with water , isn't water humid ?

 

[SlidePicker]

Of course. I'm asking, will it stay corrosion free in a humid climate afterward. I'm a little doubtful of all of the hygroscopic salts being removed by a quick swabbing with alcohol. It's got a big advantage in evaporating quickly. It's hard to get a water washed bore dry.

 

[smoothshooter]

Smoothshooter, I've never heard of this method. I've read since the '60s that water is necessary to get the fouling out and prevent rust. Will your method work in a humid climate? I'm here to learn.

Yes. I live in a humid environment.
70% isopropyl alcohol is 30% water. The actual alcohol part will cut the fouling-contaminated patch lube, as well as cause the water to evaporate in a couple of minutes, so no dry patch is needed to manually soak up any remaining water. But you MUST run a couple of oil patches down the bore and on the exterior surfaces of the barrel and lock because the alcohol will remove any preservative oil.
Be aware that there are two types of isopropyl alcohol- 70% and 90%. ONLY USE THE 70%. The 90% does not contain enough water and will evaporate too fast and not do a thorough job.
I do not know if you are cleaning a flint or percussion gun. They obviously require different methods of dealing with any water or alcohol that may leak out from the vent or nipple seat.

 

[Whughett]

Use a cleaning solution of Ballistol and water. No rust guaranteed.

 

[Okie Hog]

My muzzleloaders never rust. My method:

Before leaving the range i swab the bore with a patch wet with Windex with vinegar. Windex with vinegar quickly dissolves the crud. At home the bore is swabbed with one patch followed with a patch wet with tap water followed by a couple dry patches. Then the bore is swabbed with a patch moist with WD-40 to remove any water. If the rifle will not be used soon the bore is swabbed with a patch moist with Militec 1 or synthetic moto oil.

 

[hanshi]

Well there you go with several possibilities as to your problem. Flash rust? Maybe, but something sounds off to me. I use denatured alcohol as the final bore swab just before adding the preservative and tap water for the cleaning. I normally check the bore the day after cleaning and then again a week later. Rarely do I get a stained patch after a good cleaning. Also it might have to do with residue from your lube reacting with other components since you say it doesn't happen with your rifle. I really don't believe there's a reason for that much worry.

 

[Stantheman86]

Of course. I'm asking, will it stay corrosion free in a humid climate afterward. I'm a little doubtful of all of the hygroscopic salts being removed by a quick swabbing with alcohol. It's got a big advantage in evaporating quickly. It's hard to get a water washed bore dry.

I use Eezox and have been for over 20 years. It prevents rust like nothing else.

I clean with 70% Isopropyl Alcohol, it cuts through fouling and evaporates nicely. I follow with Eezox, done, no problems.

 

[nhmoose]

Use MAP look it up. Flash rust the internet fallacy BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA sure [sarcasm off]

 

[Grenadier1758]

The "flash rust" is due to the composition of the steel in the barrel being more prone to rust than the rifle barrel or there is micro pitting that is holding fouling as you clean. In any event, once the barrel feels clean even though you are still getting brown patches, it is time to switch to a water displacing solvent. WD-40 or rubbing alcohol should stop the formation of the brown crud darkening the patches. Of course, store the gun after a good wipe down with a rust inhibiting lubricant such as Barricade, Boeshield or one of the other good rust inhibitors available.