Cleaning Issue Solved?

[Songwriter]

This morning I got to the bottom of an issue with my rifle. The Uberti Santa Fe Hawken .53 is fairly new to me, and my first ML long gun. Browsing the various threads on this forum is so informative on all aspects of the BP world, and is where I learned of the chambered breech on this gun. So it turns out I have not been swabbing all the way down... only to the bottom of the bore where the chamber meets the barrel.
A .38 bore brush fits loosely down the chamber, and wrapped with a cleaning patch, fits tightly. I pulled out one black cruddy patch, then a couple of rusty looking ones. So, I am going to order a .38 jag to clean the chamber and, if too tight with a patch, I will turn the diameter down until it is a good fit. Sound like a good plan?
Anyway, thanks to everyone here, both the question askers and the answerers!

 

[SmokepoleSam]

How were you cleaning the rifle? If it's a hawken it has a hooked breech and the barrel comes out easily so just put it in a bucket of water and that will clean everything by pumping a cleaning rod with a patch up and down. Getting a brush is a good idea.

 

[tgfrench]

I don't know what the uberti patent breech looks like. Deercreek sells a patent breech button cleaner for Traditions and CVA's.

 

[Songwriter]

Yes, Sam, I have been cleaning it just like that… remove barrel and pump hot water up and down with a patch on cleaning rod. But I was using the jag and it doesn’t go into the smaller diameter chamber. Same jag I was using to oil it up after drying, so my oil wasn’t getting in there either. Light bulb just came on… I need to oil it with the eyelet-type cleaning kit tip and not a jag?

 

[SmokepoleSam]

I've found that removing the nipple and then pumping up and down with a jag creates a suction to clean everything including the smaller chamber. Then I use a small brush to fit the chamber with a large patch with remoil(use lube of choice) to lube the chamber and barrel and before I shoot I wipe the oil out. I hope this helps. ps: before I lube I wipe the water out with alcohol.

 

[Songwriter]

Sounds good, thanks! I just hadn't thought about that chamber until today. And thanks TG. I'll check out Deer Creek.

 

[Eterry]

Sounds good, thanks! I just hadn't thought about that chamber until today. And thanks TG. I'll check out Deer Creek.

The best tool for that job is, IMHO, a fouling scraper. TOTW sells them around $5.00
The one I ordered for my 40 cal was a smidge too large, so a little time with a dremel tool fixed that.

 

[Spillikins]

Light bulb just came on… I need to oil it with the eyelet-type cleaning kit tip and not a jag?

That's what I use to clean, dry and oil my chambered breeches. Make it a good tight fit with the appropriate sized tip and cloth.

 

[Songwriter]

Thanks, Spill, that's the plan. And Eterry, I was thinking that exact thing... and thanks for Red River Station and Doan's Crossing in your info tag. Sent me down a deep N TX history rabbit hole! Originally from Dallas myself.

 

[Crown_Pointer]

Yes, Sam, I have been cleaning it just like that… remove barrel and pump hot water up and down with a patch on cleaning rod. But I was using the jag and it doesn’t go into the smaller diameter chamber. Same jag I was using to oil it up after drying, so my oil wasn’t getting in there either. Light bulb just came on… I need to oil it with the eyelet-type cleaning kit tip and not a jag?

This is another reason I like the steam cleaning. The small diameter wands have radial orifices (see pic) which, after having done so for the length of the barrel, blast the combustion chamber clean with hot saturated steam and it just flows out the barrel end. It cleans the inside of the touch-hole too - you can see a mushroom cloud of steam emanating from it. Initially it flows down & out the barrel like a black rivulet but in short order there's nothing but clear water trickling out. Patches come out spotless. The tip with the single orifice at the end is for direct cleaning of parts like the lock. Hot clean parts suck up oil nicely.

Here's a video of one in action (not mine) that shows some close-ups.


at about 1:30 you can see a "as-is" dirty patch
At about 2:25 you can see the forward/radial steam coming from the tip orifice
At 2:35-3:00 you can see the cleaning - black at first changing to clear
At 3:10-3:30 you can see the after patch - nothing!
At 3:37 you can see the in-place lock cleaning (I normally remove my lock & barrel for cleaning). You can see how the saturated steam also acts like a pressure washer. The combo of steam and pressure washer is what makes it so mind-blowingly effective.

Here's a video of mine cleaning a barrel that was just proofed with a 2x load.

 

[Grenadier1758]

This morning I got to the bottom of an issue with my rifle. The Uberti Santa Fe Hawken .53 is fairly new to me, and my first ML long gun. Browsing the various threads on this forum is so informative on all aspects of the BP world, and is where I learned of the chambered breech on this gun. So it turns out I have not been swabbing all the way down... only to the bottom of the bore where the chamber meets the barrel.
A .38 bore brush fits loosely down the chamber, and wrapped with a cleaning patch, fits tightly. I pulled out one black cruddy patch, then a couple of rusty looking ones. So, I am going to order a .38 jag to clean the chamber and, if too tight with a patch, I will turn the diameter down until it is a good fit. Sound like a good plan?
Anyway, thanks to everyone here, both the question askers and the answerers!

I think you are getting there. One more suggestion, when you are done cleaning and have oiled all the parts that need protection, store the rifle with the muzzle down so all that excess oil can drain from the breech and not pool up to contaminate your loads when you get back to the range. Even if you do store the rifle with the muzzle down, do wipe the bore with rubbing alcohol to remove any residual oils.

 

[Songwriter]

Pointer, thanks for the intro to steam cleaning. Seems to work great, I just don't have one... but I like it!
Grenadier, will do the alcohol swab before loading.
I was on the forum sucking up all the info I could before I obtained my rifle (from a member), and you think you have a handle on everything until the wood, steel, powder, cotton and lead are in and on your hands. Then you have real life experience and the questions that it brings.
Thanks everyone!

 

[Ed C.]

The best tool for that job is, IMHO, a fouling scraper. TOTW sells them around $5.00
The one I ordered for my 40 cal was a smidge too large, so a little time with a dremel tool fixed that.

At this point, the above is one of your best bets to get back to clean. Then it is easy to keep up with it. Soap and water.

 

[Songwriter]

Yep, it's in the cart and still shopping before checkout. Thanks.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Most breech scrapers are designed to scrape the traditional flat breech and will have to be modified to reach into the cavity of a chambered breech. A better choice would be a breech face brush or 3/8" bore mop to reach into the cavity. Another choice is the tow worm sized about 3/8" to be wrapped with tow and used to wipe out the breech cavity. A pipe cleaner will still be needed to clean the flash channel from the nipple seat to the powder chamber. No breech scraper can get into that flash channel. The vigorous flushing of the barrel and breech of a hooked breech gun is what most of us do and that works pretty good.

 

[dehart.stephen]

Just a word of caution on cleaning that downsize breech chamber with brushes on your rod: Most brushes sold nowadays are not really made for PULLING back through your ML bore. I've had them pull the twisted-wire brush part out of the solid base of the brush after they accumulate some mileage in this cleaning method.

If this happens to yours, a long piece of thin-wall, extruded brass hobby tubing can capture the jammed-tight bristle part and fish it out pretty easily.

I eventually adopted using a solid,.single-piece .22 or 7mm loop type cleaning tip with a really big patch, sort of wound through-and-over the tip. It lets me twist and scrub the very bottom of the chamber and stands up to the twisting and pulling with a snug patch. The "oversize" patch, usually about an inch square or more, can be folded into a triangle and threaded through the loop by its sharp corner. Once in about halfway or a bit less, wind the middle of the folded patch up over the tip of the loop sort of like a turban, so it can scrub the very bottom.

After a brass loop twisted apart during some long service in serious twisting and scrubbing, I used an old STEEL .22 loop that I didn't allow in my smallbores. I spread the loop a bit wider for the larger patches an it has been fine.

Sounds involved, I know, but your fingers will find doing it a lot easier than reading about it. The doing is easier than the describing.

Keep in mind the direction you'll twist the swab to scrub ( i.e. the direction.that DOESN'T UNSCEW the cleaning tip), and wind the patch compatible with that. Then you have an absorbent cloth swab shaped sort of like a boxing glove to scrub the chamber all the way to its bottom.

A pipe cleaner or similar thing in the flash hole while you twist-clean the chamber captures stuff trying to escape your swab.

I oil the chamber lightly with a clean oily patch on the same loop.

The brass scrapers have also worked.for meif they're filed a bit to actually fit the chamber bottom ( some flat, some hemispherical, etc.) but the patch and loop method is still a good final step to absorb and pull out the crud.

A shaped-to-fit scraper, slotted-through and slightly reduced to use a patch, may be just the cat's whiskers for this job. However, I've (so far) stuck with the .22 loop, just because it's small, simple, uses the same large patch I swab the bore with, and fits easily in my patchbox. I've also put a slight bend at the tip of the loop to help the patch wind over it to form the "boxing glove shape " a little easier.

Happy Cleaning, folks!

 

[Songwriter]

All great info! And so much typing! I did, at least, know enuf to only use an undersized brush, so no problem there. When the scraper arrives I'll go to work on sizing it to fit, diameter and profile. I like the tow on the worm idea for scrubbing. My son grows luffa (loofah) and I think a wad of that would work as well.
Thanks again!

 

[Crown_Pointer]

Pointer, thanks for the intro to steam cleaning. Seems to work great, I just don't have one... but I like it!
Grenadier, will do the alcohol swab before loading.
I was on the forum sucking up all the info I could before I obtained my rifle (from a member), and you think you have a handle on everything until the wood, steel, powder, cotton and lead are in and on your hands. Then you have real life experience and the questions that it brings.
Thanks everyone!

Well I often feel it's like explaining the car to buggy drivers. Nothing wrong with buggies...but....

Another thing I've done to help cleaning is make workbenches to aid in disassembly. Years ago Rob Andrews was making them for Brown Bess's but when I contacted him he had no issue with me making one for my Charleville (different shape). It's a fun woodworking project and it protects your gun while disassembling it. The biggest challenge was getting the profile of the gun (& lock) at each of the support points - a bit tricky at the butt because of the 3D shape. I used a profile gauge. The gun can be placed vertically (tang) or on it's side (what I mainly use) in the soft felt-lined cradles, which hold securely, to tap the barrel pins out and unscrew the lock. It has places on it to keep the pins & screws safe while you do other things (like steam clean the barrel & lock and give it a hot oiling) ;-D There's also a separate support for just the disassembled barrel and another for the ram-rod. Once you use these you won't want to take it apart any other way. Fast, secure, protected.

Here's a few items of his literature. Kudos to Rob Andrews for such an inspired design. Yet another "Cleaning Issue Solved".