Cleaning Kibler Woodsrunner?

[rbeave]

Is your barrel a GM or Rice?

.50 cal so gm I presume

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Peroxide is corrosive, no place for it in a barrel. Just my opinion.

Truly.

Many have extolled the virtues of these wild chemical cocktails for bore cleaning.

I have never seen or tried one that cleans any better than warm water and a drip of Dawn.

 

[planefixer da50]

get some bamboo toothpicks much stronger n less prone to breakage.

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

You don't need to remove the barrel to clean the rifle, just the lock. Instructions in post above. Except I use Ballistol instead of WD-40. If you happen to get some water in the barrel channel, blow it out with compressed air.

However, maybe you might want to occasionally, say once a year or so, to remove the barrel to clean and oil the underside, to continue protecting it from corrosion.

Watching

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

https://www.luckybag.us/MagneticFlushTube.html

I LOVE mine.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

get some bamboo toothpicks much stronger n less prone to breakage.

I’ve heard this called “chinaman’s grass” in older periods.

 

[Osseon]

I have a kibler colonial assembled by Dave Person (a master gun maker). He taught me that removing the barrel for cleaning is no issue. The way he told me to do it is remove the barrel pins always in one direction and insert them into the same direction. Once the barrel is removed put the barrel into a bucket of soapy warm/hot water with the flash hole submerged.

Run a patch up and down the barrel until you effectively make a water pump. The water will suck up the barrel through the flash hole up to the end of the barrel. Repeat this until the water coming out of the flash hole is no longer dark (confirming all fouling is removed).

Once that is finished, remove the barrel, dry the outside. Put a mop down the barrel to get as much water out then a few patches. Then finish up with a patch of oil. (I do usually like 2 dry patches, patch of wd-40, then a dry patch, then a patch of ballistol)

The lock can be thrown into the bucket, swished around. Remove it, use a brush to work all the nooks and springs. If extra dirty add a single squirt of ballistol to make it milky white as you brush. Pat in a towel, spray the nooks and springs in wd-40, shake it. Wipe it with a towel. Finish by adding ballistol to the moving parts and wiping away access.

Alternatively you can just not remove the barrel, break a toothpick in half, insert in flash pan, tap with a mallet. Then pour water/ballistol or water/dish soap mix down the barrel, plug it with your thumb, tilt the gun back and forth and pour out. Repeat until water is no longer dirty. Run a mop down the barrel a few times. Now repeat the list above.

I've removed my barrel many times and I think wearing out the lugs might be a myth as long as you are careful.

 

[smoothshooter]

So I just purchased a prestine kibler woodsrunner, almost too pretty to shoot. wanted to know what's everyone's approach to cleaning woods runner. the barrel is pinned in and I assume I'd have to remove the barrel etc. I've cleaned many other BP rifles...

Do not remove the barrel for any reason unless it is to put a coat of wax or very light coat Sheath on the bottom flats as a rust preventive.
Then reassemble and never remove it again.

 

[Osseon]

Do not remove the barrel for any reason unless it is to put a coat of wax or very light coat Sheath on the bottom flats as a rust preventive.
Then reassemble and never remove it again.

No disrespect, but I trust a master muzzleloader gunsmith over some guy on the Internet. He takes his barrel off to clean and so shall I. From the manual he typed out for me. From Dave:

I usually remove the barrel and pump hot water up and down in the bore by inserting the breech in a pail of hot soapy water and using a rod and patch to pump the water. Then I rinse the barrel with hot water, let it drain, and swab it dry with patches lubed with WD-40. Then I run oil lubed patches down the bore. Clean up the outside of the barrel with bore solvent and then oil it. Wipe the stock clean at the breech.

He literally builds flintlocks full time so... Seems like taking off the barrel is not scary or damaging for him. It's easier, quicker, and a better clean. It also keeps the stock from getting damaged by the cleaning process.

The pins are also rounded to not damage the wood.

 

[Steve Wagner]

I can understand your viewpoint. There has been much controversy about using peroxide to clean ML’s for many years.
I have barrels routinely cleaned with MAP for more then 20 years that display zero corrosion when examined with a bore scope and appear “as new”. Several of my shooting buddies have had the same experience. While the industrial grade 100% peroxide is corrosive, the Drug Store 3% Peroxide when diluted with the alcohol and Murphy’s is less then 1%. Metal corrosion in this concentration corrosion is non- existent for the 5 minutes the solution is exposed to the barrel. The very low % of peroxide in the mix is believed to complex with the carbon and other residues to convert it to CO2. That’s why the wiping patch comes out immediately white(no black carbon) and you can feel the CO2 gas escape on you thumb when you invert the barrel after pouring the solution into the barrel, and, all fouling is removed. Why not take advantage of some chemistry to make cleaning easier?

Good points, and for those that swear by dish soap, I just read the Dawn Platinum label 2 weeks ago to check, and there are 4 types of sodium in it. Sodium chloride, sodium citrate, sodium lauryl sulfate and tetrasodium glutamate diacetate. Sodium salad.
So, obviously, whether it's peroxide or multiple sodiums, when you are finished cleaning, that stuff all needs to be cleared out and a rust inhibitor applied.
I use the Birchwood Casey liquid [because I didn't know any better and I'm a newbie] and it doesn't list the ingredients.
Probably just Red Dawn. But I haven't rinsed with pure water after using a couple tablespoons down the muzzle followed by pumping a half gallon of hot water to mix it up. And no rust at all in over 2 years of cleaning. All parts coated with Breakfree when I'm done.
I may stay with the Birchwood product. Cleans really well. Not that expensive for how long it lasts. Still on the 1st bottle.
Even placebos work sometimes. SW

 

[Tizzy]

Each time you remove the barrel pins, you run the risk of, or are enlarging the pin holes in the wood. Why would you do that? I understand doing so once a year to oil underside of barrel and apply wax to barrel channel. I can only add what has worked for me. Run a few wet patches down bore with a little Dawn dishwashing soap. Then run dry patches until dry and clean. Then run an oiled patch down. Use the used oiled patch from barrel to wipe lock and breach area off. Then coat a clean patch with oil and wipe all metal exterior parts off (barrel, lock,etc.) Do yourself a favor, don’t remove lock or barrel, and don’t over complicate things.

 

[Freedom]

Do not remove the barrel for any reason unless it is to put a coat of wax or very light coat Sheath on the bottom flats as a rust preventive.
Then reassemble and never remove it again.

No disrespect, but I trust a master muzzleloader gunsmith over some guy on the Internet. He takes his barrel off to clean and so shall I. From the manual he typed out for me. From Dave:

He literally builds flintlocks full time so... Seems like taking off the barrel is not scary or damaging for him. It's easier, quicker, and a better clean. It also keeps the stock from getting damaged by the cleaning process.

The pins are also rounded to not damage the wood.

It is incredibly easy to break the long thin stock of a longrifle just by bumping it on something.

Way too risky for a simple barrel cleaning.

Just one little moment of distraction will sure have you regretting the day you chose to clean your barrel this way,..and break your "Precious" (and one of Dave's masterpieces).

I like to clean my Kibler, horizontal in a caddy.
A few wet patches, a few dry patches, and an oil patch, you're done.

I use distilled water and a squirt bottle to clean the lock installed.

By holding the rifle in front of me over the trash can, with the lock down a few squirts will have it shiny clean. Little squirt of CLP, ..and wipe down the whole rifle.

I do use a very fine line of heavy tractor grease between the lock face and the barrel, to completely waterproof the seem between the pan and the barrel.

 

[smoothshooter]

It is incredibly easy to break the long thin stock of a longrifle just by bumping it on something.

Way too risky for a simple barrel cleaning.

Just one little moment of distraction will sure have you regretting the day you chose to clean your barrel this way,..and break your "Precious" (and one of Dave's masterpieces).

I like to clean my Kibler, horizontal in a caddy.
A few wet patches, a few dry patches, and an oil patch, you're done.

I use distilled water and a squirt bottle to clean the lock installed.

By holding the rifle in front of me over the trash can, with the lock down a few squirts will have it shiny clean. Little squirt of CLP, ..and wipe down the whole rifle.

I do use a very fine line of heavy tractor grease between the lock face and the barrel, to completely waterproof the seem between the pan and the barrel.

Repeated removal of a pinned in barrel will cause the pin holes to get loose, and likely chip out.
I suppose if someone is only an occasional shooter, the risk is less.
If someone shoots a lot of days out of the year as I have done in the past ( 8 to 12 days a month ), taking the barrel out of the stock to clean it at the end of the day is asking for trouble.
A very highly skilled builder can beat the odds of damaging the pin holes better than almost all regular shooters, but there are VERY FEW of those.

 

[French Colonial]

For those of you who insist on removing the barrel for cleaning, what are you cleaning?

I ask in all seriousness, what happened/changed on the underneath of your barrel that it now needs to be cleaned?

 

[Leatherbark]

My Buddy uses the Murphys, Alcohol, Peroxide and his bores are no longer shiny. They are a dull grey color which I believe is microscopic pitting. I've always used water and soap and WD-40 and my bores for the last 48 years are shiny. Plus, if any of that MAP hits the wood it is an instant stain. Especially if it has a chance to run down the stock.

 

[Flintlock Fellow]

For those of you who insist on removing the barrel for cleaning, what are you cleaning?

I ask in all seriousness, what happened/changed on the underneath of your barrel that it now needs to be cleaned?

It sounds like they’re referring to the convenience of cleaning by sticking the barrel in a bucket of water and pumping or swabbing it, similar to how you’d clean a wedged half-stock.

I picked up one of those magnetic flush tubes and haven’t looked back since. I simply place the magnet over the touch hole, drop the tubing into a crock of water with a little mild dish soap, and get to work! No worries about a toothpick breaking off or water seeping into the inlet. Of course, many guys with decades of experience have found the toothpick method to work just fine.

Regardless of skill level, removing your barrel after every range session is just asking for trouble. Even with the utmost care, it’s completely unnecessary.

Having had my flintlock ruined by someone claiming to be a “master gunsmith,” I’ve learned not to put much stock in that title anymore.

 

[French Colonial]

It sounds like they’re referring to the convenience of cleaning by sticking the barrel in a bucket of water and pumping or swabbing it, similar to how you’d clean a wedged half-stock.

I picked up one of those magnetic flush tubes and haven’t looked back since. I simply place the magnet over the touch hole, drop the tubing into a crock of water with a little mild dish soap, and get to work! No worries about a toothpick breaking off or water seeping into the inlet. Of course, many guys with decades of experience have found the toothpick method to work just fine.

Regardless of skill level, removing your barrel after every range session is just asking for trouble. Even with the utmost care, it’s completely unnecessary.

Having had my flintlock ruined by someone claiming to be a “master gunsmith,” I’ve learned not to put much stock in that title anymore.

And for a half stock with wedges I would remove the barrel, but not to clean under the barrel, just because it is convenient and if it is a percussion the nipple as well.

For a full stock flintlock, again I ask, what gets under the barrel that needs cleaned?

I have been cleaning them for years with either a bamboo toothpick in the vent, or lately with one of the magnetic flush tubes and never remove the barrel...............no matter how many people say removing the pins and the tang screw is easy I ask, easier than not removing them at all?

 

[N.Y. Yankee]

What it comes down to is that it's your gun, you do it the way you see fit to. Let others do it their way with their guns. I do mine my way and I don't argue with others about it, although they will try.

 

[Flintlock Fellow]

And for a half stock with wedges I would remove the barrel, but not to clean under the barrel, just because it is convenient and if it is a percussion the nipple as well.

For a full stock flintlock, again I ask, what gets under the barrel that needs cleaned?

I have been cleaning them for years with either a bamboo toothpick in the vent, or lately with one of the magnetic flush tubes and never remove the barrel...............no matter how many people say removing the pins and the tang screw is easy I ask, easier than not removing them at all?

You’re absolutely right. It’s wholly unwarranted… unless you want to clean your bore by pumping it in a bucket, which I suppose is a misconception— something many folks who are new to the hobby feel is a required task.

The OP asked for advice on the cleaning of his/her new Woodsrunner. We’d be remiss to not mention the potential pitfalls of removing one’s pinned barrel during every cleaning session.

It’s absolutely your prerogative to do things as you see fit. Just don’t come crying to us when you’ve chipped out or enlarged your pin holes doing something you were advised not to do by the vast majority of members (many of whom have learned from The School of Hard Knocks and now know better).