Russ T Frizzen
70 Cal.
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- Nov 9, 2004
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Thanks. In the event that these guns did exist, they would be nearly as rare as Walkers. And very valuable.
cleaning revolvers
- Thread starter Bill Austin
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Colt has a history department that does these verifications.
Why worry with someone that may or may not know what he is spouting off about?
Call Colt!
Colt's first rebated cylender model produced was the 1860 Army. Then they did a bunch of .36 models on the .31 frame.
Additionally, Navy and Police models were always .36 cal: .44 cal always designated Dragoons or Army models.
That was colt's system and transfered to the military.
There were no Colt models designated with a Civilian label or sheriff's models after colt cranked back up in '48.
Even the Walker was offically the first model Dragoon.
Why worry with someone that may or may not know what he is spouting off about?
Call Colt!
Colt's first rebated cylender model produced was the 1860 Army. Then they did a bunch of .36 models on the .31 frame.
Additionally, Navy and Police models were always .36 cal: .44 cal always designated Dragoons or Army models.
That was colt's system and transfered to the military.
There were no Colt models designated with a Civilian label or sheriff's models after colt cranked back up in '48.
Even the Walker was offically the first model Dragoon.
Guest
Imagine taking two cylenders and cutting them in half. One cylender is for a .44 and the other a .36.
Imagine attaching the front of the .44 cylender to the back of the .36 cylender.
One could then use the smaller frame of the .36 navy to support the larger caliber of the .44 army model.
This is what colt did when he developed the 1860 army model. The resulting cylender shows a distinct step between the front and back of the cylender. This is called a rebated design.
There is also a matching step cut in the frame. All of the 1860 army models and 1861 navy models used this system, but it is not recorded as being used until the adoption of the army model of 1860.
Imagine attaching the front of the .44 cylender to the back of the .36 cylender.
One could then use the smaller frame of the .36 navy to support the larger caliber of the .44 army model.
This is what colt did when he developed the 1860 army model. The resulting cylender shows a distinct step between the front and back of the cylender. This is called a rebated design.
There is also a matching step cut in the frame. All of the 1860 army models and 1861 navy models used this system, but it is not recorded as being used until the adoption of the army model of 1860.
If Colt made 1600 1851s in .44 caliber I would think that Flayderman's Guide would mention it. The fact that it doesn't does not mean that they didn't exist, but they would indeed be VERY rare guns and as his guide is aimed at collectors, I would think he would include it.
In speaking of the 3rd model Dragoon, he says it was sold both to civilians and the military from 1851 to 1861. This would be in the time frame mentioned above for the '51 .44 Cal Navy. Of course it had a round-back trigger guard and weighed about 4 pounds, but weight is no problem when the horse is carrying it, and the large powder charge it would take was very useful. It was popular with the Military.
He goes on to mention that these 3rd model guns had Silver Plated Trigger Guards when sold to Civilians, but the Military issue guns were plain.
I wonder if someone might have confused these 3rd model Dragoons with a 1851? From a distance, they do look similar unless they are right next to each other so the size diffrence is obvoius.
I wonder why a Calvary unit in this time frame would use a lighter, lower power gun instead of what the rest of the Calvary units were using? :: ::
My curiosity is roused. :: ::
In speaking of the 3rd model Dragoon, he says it was sold both to civilians and the military from 1851 to 1861. This would be in the time frame mentioned above for the '51 .44 Cal Navy. Of course it had a round-back trigger guard and weighed about 4 pounds, but weight is no problem when the horse is carrying it, and the large powder charge it would take was very useful. It was popular with the Military.
He goes on to mention that these 3rd model guns had Silver Plated Trigger Guards when sold to Civilians, but the Military issue guns were plain.
I wonder if someone might have confused these 3rd model Dragoons with a 1851? From a distance, they do look similar unless they are right next to each other so the size diffrence is obvoius.
I wonder why a Calvary unit in this time frame would use a lighter, lower power gun instead of what the rest of the Calvary units were using? :: ::
My curiosity is roused. :: ::
Here is the reply I got from "Acrom'
Mr nick--A book from my library. I believe the author's name was Frank Belkin, A History of the Colt Revolver although at the time I was looking through a lot of Colt related books. Actually, I was doing some patent law research--Sam Colt was able to get an extension on his original "revolving pistol" patent when he found out Remington was ready to produce their solid frame pistols the moment his original patent expired. There's also a couple references on the net about the 2nd Cav, formerly the 2nd Dragoons. The Army always required the .44 caliber for pistols they contracted to purchase, although many officers carried .36 pistols as they purchased their own sidearms. I believe that prior to the Civil War, only Dragoons or Cavalry units were issued sidearms actually purchased by the government
Mr nick--A book from my library. I believe the author's name was Frank Belkin, A History of the Colt Revolver although at the time I was looking through a lot of Colt related books. Actually, I was doing some patent law research--Sam Colt was able to get an extension on his original "revolving pistol" patent when he found out Remington was ready to produce their solid frame pistols the moment his original patent expired. There's also a couple references on the net about the 2nd Cav, formerly the 2nd Dragoons. The Army always required the .44 caliber for pistols they contracted to purchase, although many officers carried .36 pistols as they purchased their own sidearms. I believe that prior to the Civil War, only Dragoons or Cavalry units were issued sidearms actually purchased by the government
Russ T Frizzen
70 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2004
- Messages
- 5,007
- Reaction score
- 424
As Zonie points out--and my research indicates--Norm Flayderman fails to mention these guns. He is unlikely to have commited an oversight of this magnitude.
Dragoons used Dragoon pistols. Big old .44s. They were mounted infantry essentially and could also fight from the saddle if required. I guess they probably had Model 1847 Musketoons, too, although I seem to recall that they were pretty much despised by all who used them.
While it is true that Colt used the rebated cylinder on pocket pistols, I can find no reference to it being used on a belt pistol until the '60 Army appears. There is simply no mention to be found of these phantom .44 Navy pistols and
it does seem very unlikely that they ever existed.
Dragoons used Dragoon pistols. Big old .44s. They were mounted infantry essentially and could also fight from the saddle if required. I guess they probably had Model 1847 Musketoons, too, although I seem to recall that they were pretty much despised by all who used them.
While it is true that Colt used the rebated cylinder on pocket pistols, I can find no reference to it being used on a belt pistol until the '60 Army appears. There is simply no mention to be found of these phantom .44 Navy pistols and
it does seem very unlikely that they ever existed.
