cleaning solutions

[George]

They say whatever you do on the first day of a new year you will do frequently throughout the year. how about a good armchair discussion to test the theory?

In "Chemistry of Powder and Explosives, Vol. I", by Tenney L. Davis, published by Wiley, there is a description of chemical analyses done on the products of combustion when RLG brand black powder is burned.

In general, burning powder produced 42.98 percent of its weight of gases, 55.91 percent solids, and 1.11 percent water.

In detail, this is what is produced:

The gaseous products, by percent weight, are: Carbon dioxide-49.29, Carbon monoxide-12.47, Nitrogen-32.91, Hydrogen sulfide-2.65, Methane-0.43 and Hydrogen-2.19.

The solids by percent weight are: Potassium carbonate-61, Potassium sulphate--15.10, Potassium sulphide-14.45, Potassium thiocyanate-0.22, Potassium nitrate-0.27, Ammonium carbonate-0.08, Sulphur-8.74, and Carbon-0.08.

Of course, it's those solids we are interested in. Here's some info about water solubility and other bits of interest I was able to glean with a quick search of chemistry sites on the web:

Potassium carbonate... very water soluble. Described as "deliquescent, tends to liquefaction by attraction and absorption of water from the air" [sound familiar?]. Known also as potash or pearl ash, used in olden days as a leavening agent in bread.

Potassium sulphate... very water soluble

Potassium sulphide... water soluble

Potassium thiocyanate... very water soluble, deliquescent

Ammonium carbonate... water soluble, used in smelling salts and baking powder

Notice that the first three constitute 90.5% of the fouling, and that the bulk of the remainder is residual sulphur at 8.74%.

The only things you are likely to find in your barrel after the shot which are not water soluble are some left-over sulphur and carbon (charcoal), both neutral. Even most of that will be blown out the barrel. If any potassium nitrate from the unburned powder remains, it is water soluble, more so as the temperature of the water increases.

I see nothing here which requires alcohol, windshield wiper fluid, hydrogen peroxide, water soluble oil of any type, soap, acetone or any of the many, many other things I hear people advocating as cleaning agents.

Why is it that the vast majority of shooters feel it is absolutely mandatory to use some chemical cocktail to clean their bores when plain water is an excellent solvent for every bad thing in there?

This discussion is limited to 1 year, I'll start another next new year. :grin:

Spence

 

[ohio ramrod]

I myself use warm water with a small amount of soap, just to make the fouling easier to remove from my hands than water alone. I use Alcohol/water solutions in hunting and range situations when it is below freezing just because water by itself freezes. But many people are constantly seeking "something new and better" and companies are always trying to sell something to make a buck! :idunno:

 

[hoochiepapa]

...and don't forget the guy that wants to be on the cusp of something revolutionary. :surrender:

 

[pa woods roamer]

I mostly use Wd-40 for final clean up.I don`t know why, but I just don`t get that warm fuzzy feeling when I just use plain Water!!

 

[paulvallandigham]

To try to answer your question, we use alcohol in the gun to evaporate the water that condenses in the HOT bore from the air that rushes in. Guns are not fired, nor cleaned in vacuums. In real life, air holds some moisture, at least until the air temperature is so below zero degrees F. that you have to be nuts to be shooting in such weather! :grin: That moisture combines with carbon, and with the sulfur in the barrel, and with any remaining nitrates present. You can get weak solutions of both Nitric acid, and sulfuric acid from the combination of the water and these elements. The wet carbon just becomes a "Glue" that holds these nasty acids against the bore.

Will soap and water clean the barrel between shot? Yes. If its used. But, it seems most of the people on this forum ABHOR cleaning their guns between shots! I don't understand why that is.

Will water at least remove most of the acids, if a wet or dampened cleaning patch is run down the barrel after a shot is fired?? Yes, it will.

Do you need to use alcohol or any other chemical in the bore to remove the powder residues? No. EXCEPT if you are shooting in hot temperatures, with very high humidity. IN that situation, the humidity and heat can condense moisture inside the bore almost instantly, and I have experienced this moisture make soup out of the residue, clogging the flash channel on my percussion shotgun.

The only way I was able to get that flash channel clean was to flush the barrel with alcohol. If I had been near a source of water, and had a bucket with me, I could have soaked the barrels in the bucket of water and gotten the same job done. Without it, alcohol was my only choice.

I used a Nipple wire( pick) to clear the nipples, and to dig into the flash channel. Then used a alcohol soaked pipe cleaner to clear the channel as far as I could go. Then poured alcohol down the barrels and waited for it to dissolve the gunk, and leak out the bolsters, through the flash channels.

I do like to run a greased cleaning patch down my barrels when I am going hunting for the day, to prevent the bore from rusting during the day. Hunting here is generally in November and December, the wettest months of the Fall, so even a sunny morning is no guarantee you won't be coming out of the woods after dark in the rain.

The rest of the items you ask about are things intended for particular needs- not necessarily for storage, or transport, and certainly not for most cleaning. :thumbsup:

 

[napolean]

The reason I use a little soap (I use only bar soap, no detergents)is to help remove the residule lube left in the bore with the fouling.
If you use only spit patch or other water based lubes the soap is not needed. I also try to avoid city supplied tap water (I have a well)as chlorine is very corrosive (although it evaporates quickly).
Jon D

 

[paulvallandigham]

Detergents emulsify and remove the chlorine from the barrel, along with the carbon. As long as you use a dry cleaning patch to soak up water left in the barrel after the RINSE, you should have no problem with chlorine.

I had much more problems cleaning my barrel on a Boar hunt in Eastern Tennessee, where the well water had a very high iron content, with a bit of sulfur just to make it memorable. :shocked2: :rotf: I used more detergent ( Liquid soap- Palmolive brand liquid dish soap to be specific-- nice green color) in my water to clean out the iron and sulfur! Checked the gun at home, when we returned, and found no adverse results from my "field cleaning job".

The Amount of chlorine that is put in processed water is so small that its not a problem. Its there to kill any bacteria that might get into the water pipes under the streets, as a result of small breaks in the water mains. If you didn't know it, most city water mains follow the same trunk lines, and the pipes are adjacent to the city Sewer lines. :shocked2: :idunno: :surrender: You don't want sewage getting into the water system.

That is often the reason we get "Boil" orders from the water company whenever a main is shut down, or an area is flooded allowing non-processed water to enter the system. :thumbsup:

 

[Twice boom]

Does it really matter what we use as long as the barrel gets clean.

I have a first addition from 1846 that the author recommend cold water for scrubbing the barrel. Once he had his barrels clean he would pour hot water down them and set it aside to dry. He felt hot water quickened the drying process . Every time I used hot water I would get flash rust. Then again that could be cause the shot gun is a 1847 vintage and the barrels may need polishing. :idunno:
Twice.

 

[David W.]

Very hot water will evaporate quicker than room temp water will. Very hot water also does create flash rust. I do not see that as a problem as long as I swab the bore twice with alcohol after the water cleaning. But, I do not see the need of using water hotter than comes out of the tap, and sometimes I feel that is too hot. If the water is hot enough to make it uncomfortable to handle the barel, it is too hot for me.

I agree with using whatever one wants to clean their gun. Use full strength hydorchloric acid if it crumbles your cookies. I just use tepid water with a little Dawn, wipe it dry with a couple of patches, follow up with an alcohol patch, and then finish with Ballistol.

 

[napolean]

Paul,
Yep, I've seen some of those wells, The water flat stinks. But as you've pointed out, it will still clean well enough until you can get better.
The municiple water supply here in Odessa ain't much better, Some days the chlorine smells so strong I think they tapped into the local swimming pool. We use it only for bathing, dishes, and laundry.
I use the bar soap because it seems to rinse better than the liquid detergents, and I have'nt seen the "flash rust" problem that others seem to have. When swabbing at the firing line just a moist patch covers if done often. I've never really hunted so far from home or camp that it was an issue so a quick swab with a moist patch and a lubed patch was always enough until done for the day.
Jon D

 

[nkbj]

Years ago in the field I preferred using an amylase solution. Frequently seemed to work best with an alcohol based additive (from Ireland).

 

[Black Hand]

Years ago in the field I preferred using an amylase solution. Frequently seemed to work best with an alcohol based additive (from Ireland).

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[napolean]

Never thought of enzymes as a base for barrel cleaning fluid. They are added to a lot of cleaning agents so I suppose it would work.
Jon D

 

[FPDoc]

Amylase is present in saliva.. so.. just spit into your favorite cleaning solvent to add the "enzyme effect". Can't hurt. :wink: