Cleaning ?

[CraigFl]

From what I've read and heard cleaning the rifle soon after its been shot is very important. How much time do you have before problems could occur? I can think of a few situations were it could be 2-3 hours before cleaning, is there something that can be done in the field to hold you over awhile, I'm currently using Pyrodex if that makes a difference. Thanks.

 

[fyrfyter43]

If I'm not going to be able to clean my rifle for a while, I swab the bore with a few patches saturated with 91% isopropyl alcohol.

I have, on occasion, left my rifle overnight before cleaning, but only after using the alcohol-soaked patches to clean most of the fouling out. This is with black powder. I'm not so sure I would try it if I were using Pyrodex, especially after seeing the damage Pyrodex can do to a barrel in a short time if it's not cleaned out properly.

 

[mykeal]

How long depends on the powder you're using, and unfortunately Pyrodex is not one that gives you lots of time.

fyrfyter43 offers some good advice. It's beneficial to swab the bore while still at the range - this greatly increases the amount of time you have to fully clean the gun before damage starts.

Assuming, however, that you don't swab the bore at the range, and that you're using Pyrodex, (the worst case scenario), a couple of hours should not be a problem; overnight would be too long. You won't have major damage if you wait overnight, but there will be significant corrosion starting in the bore by then and it will take a lot more work to get it completely clean.

On the other end of the spectrum, 777 is the least corrosive stuff I've used, and a couple of days is not a problem with it.

As far as cleaning materials at the range: lots of options here. Certainly alcohol is good. Many people use Windex or even just water. There are many commercial bp solvents that will do the job also, such as T/C No. 13, Butch's Bore Shine, Dixie Gun Works BP Solvent, etc.

One good swab with a wet patch, followed by a couple of dry patches and another wet one should be plenty enough to knock down the salts. If using alcohol, water or Windex, follow with a final dry patch; if using one of the solvents just leave it wet.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Lets get real! A couple of hours is what you have in most hunting situations between shots. If you know you are done shooting for the day swab the barrel with alcohol or even spit patches to remove most of the fouling then oil well untill you can clean throughly. Also putting an oily patch in the end of the barrel and over the vent/nipple to keep air out helps.When hunting I always run a heavily greased (80% lard 20% beeswax) patch down and out of the barrel after loading to protect the barrel from moisture as Ohio's deer season is often rainy.

 

[zrifleman]

I had rust problems in a BPCR for 2 weeks after using Pyrodex, even after repeated cleaning. Never again! For BP cleaning, I use a mix of 1/3 each---drugstore hydrogen peroxide, 91% isopropyl alcohol, Murphy's Oil Soap. Never had a speck of rust. Of course I follow up with an oil patch with Kroil of Triflow.

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu really need to neutralize the residual salts left in the bore from both Black Powder, and the substitutes. Even Pyrodex leaves salts that combine with moisture to form acids, and in very short time.

Use a cleaning patch, with spit, if nothing else is on hand, to swab the bore. That will remove most of the salts- with a couple of patches.

I have cleaned my barrel in the woods with just a cleaning patch and spit, and the gun stayed clean enough until the next morning when I was home and could clean it properly. I didn't find any rust, but I was hunting on a very cold, dry day, too, and the gun didn't even go into my car for the trip home until it was in a case. The only moisture in the car came from me, and that was not enough to rust anything. The gun was laying down on the bottom of the hatchback, below where any "steam" might have reached.

If you have oil, or alcohol, but no soap and water, then at least coat the bore with the oil, or use the alcohol to flush out both salts and carbon deposits.[You can get soap and water at most gas stations. So, only long trips out of wilderness areas on horseback are going to cause real delays to cleaning the gun.] The oil will keep AIR, and moisture, away from the metal, and crud. The alcohol will dissolve any oils, loosen and dissolve both salts and carbon and flush them from the barrel.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Even Pyrodex leaves salts that combine with moisture to form acids, and in very short time.

It is chloride that is the nastiest corrosive agent in our world, and Pyrodex produces lots, as do any other substitutes that use a chlorate for an oxidizer. In proper "gunpowder", chloride would normally only come from contaminates in the potassium nitrate or in the water used in manufacture, so the purer the ingredients, the less corrosive the fouling, and the less hygroscopic the black powder. This is not to suggest that the other components of fouling are necessarily benign, just that chloride is by far the most active agent, and the worst cause of pitting rather than more even, and usually lighter, surface rust. The "Mad Monk", among others, has investigated this in some detail.

YOu really need to neutralize the residual salts left in the bore from both Black Powder, and the substitutes.

One not-quite-minor nit-pick, Paul. We do not actually neutralize these salts, only remove them, or possibly keep them away from the water that makes them corrosive in solution or from the iron they would react with. A salt is what one gets when one neutralizes an acid or a base - the free hydrogen and hydroxide combine to form water while any other cations and anions involved combine to form salts. If the salts hydrate or dissolve, they separate back into reactive ions, and the materials that we normally deal with do not actually tie the ions up.

Obviously, we can also get these compounds from other reactions, such as burning gunpowder, which is where we came in.

Regards,
Joel

 

[nchawkeye]

I've even used baby wipes...Tear on into 3 pieces, double over and swab the bore and pan...Then follow with a greased or oiled patch and you are good to go for a day or so...I do like to give a better cleaning when I get home...

 

[paulvallandigham]

Water is the universal solvent. Using a wet patch down the bore lets the patch soak in the salts, and weakens the acids present. The patch pulls them out. A couple of patches down the barrel, and its relatively protected from sulfuric acid, nitric acid, and hydrochloric acid.

Thanks for the added information. I pretend to be no chemist. I knew that Pyrodex produced some kind of evil genie, but didn't know what it was. :blah: :shocked2: The other subs are based on ascorbic acid compounds, and those acids are rather hydroscopic. Unlike Black Powder, which does not become hydroscopic until its been burned, and its residues now combine easily with moisture in the air.

I also believe that the Graphite coating given BP not only protects it from static electricity, but also protects the granules from contact with moist air. :thumbsup:

 

[Billnpatti]

Pyrodex, while not forming as much corrosive combustion products as black powder, will none the less, form some corrosive combustion products. Consequently, it is imparative that you clean your gun as soon as possible after shooting it. In most instances,corrosion does not become a problem unless you become complacent and allow your gun to sit uncleaned overnight. At the range, you can use such products as Hoppe's black powder solvent, Rusty Duck Black Off or similar products. One thing that does a reasonably good job of cleaning your gun is plain old windshield washer fluid, the cheap stuff from Wal-Mart will do the job quite well. You can carry a gallon jug of windshield washer fluid with you along with a peach can (actually any can will do). When you are through shooting, just flush your barrel with the washer fluid, spray it well with WD-40 to get rid of the moisture, run some dry patches through it followed by some oiled patches and you are good to go before you even leave the range. Of course, you will need to do the rest of the cleaning job, such as the lock and the nipple area or flash pan area, before you put it up.

If you are going to use substitute powders, you might want to consider using something like Triple 7. It is less corrosive than Pyrodex.

Your muzzle loader will not rust up on you instantly but leaving it overnight is not a good idea. :shake:

 

[CraigFl]

Thanks all for the great advice, a friend who is a long time Muzzle loader shooter uses the hydrogen peroxide, rubbing alcohol and Murphy's oil soap as mentioned above for just about everything, cleaning and patch lube,etc, he's said its works great for real BP but never used a substitute so he couldn't comment. I was thinking I could fill the barrel at the truck while putting the hunting stuff away, let it sit a few minutes and then dump it out and run a few dry patches thru followed buy a light coat of Bore butter and then thoroughly clean the next day. does this sound acceptable? Thanks again.

 

[nkbj]

If you can get your hands on IP99 (99% alcohol)or even just straight denatured alcohol at the hardware store then give it a try for in the woods between shots to knock down the fouling.
It evaporates so well that you can minimize that chance of a hang- or mis-fire.
For cleaning after shooting nothing is going to beat soapy water...which reminds me that I haven't completed my new and improved four foot long breech washer tube. :shake:

 

[Little Wattsy]

From what I've read and heard cleaning the rifle soon after its been shot is very important. How much time do you have before problems could occur? I can think of a few situations were it could be 2-3 hours before cleaning, is there something that can be done in the field to hold you over awhile, I'm currently using Pyrodex if that makes a difference. Thanks.

I too shoot Prodex "exclusively" (at this time :grin: ) and have NEVER had any issue at ALL waiting 2 to 3 hours to clean..My range is almost an hour from my house...I DO, however, give it a good swipe or two with alcohol before leaving the range.

 

[hanshi]

Just a reminder, black powder and black powder fouling is NOT in itself corrosive! Corrosion is caused by the hygroscopic (ability to attract water from the atmosphere) nature of the fouling but not the unburned black powder. Guns have been found that fired great and were loaded for more than 150 years. Also if you live and shoot in an arid climate, you could wait (not recommended, though) months to clean and be okay. Rust is only going to occur if there is enough humidity to allow it.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The biggest cleaning issue for Florida shooters is salt in the air. Most of the state lies low enough, or close enough to salt water bodies that there is a lot of salt in the moist air, too.