Col. LeMat’s Grapeshot Revolvers?

[Gene L]

So


Assuming your "'lil percussion revolver book" is correct, perhaps someone here can convert "an inch in soft pine" into "inches of human flesh" for us?

Seems it might not be so effective on the ribcage but would be fatal in the gut. But I await an expert opinion.

Pine used to be a standard testing medium, or at least I've seen it in period publications. This was before ballistic jell and chronographs. I don't think there's a direct conversion, and I don't know how the results were evaluated.

 

[bang]

I’m a bit curious how useful the central barrel was and what it was typically loaded with. Seems most people feel a smooth barrel handgun is about worthless with shot.

If I remember right it was a 30gn, 6 - 00 buck.

 

[Enfield58]

I have a Navy Arms LeMat. I bought it back in the 90s.

Navy Arms said to use a .451 round ball. When I went to load the revolver with a .451 round ball, the loading lever bent after about the third round. I removed the loading lever and fired the chambers then cleaned the revolver.

I called Navy Arms and they gave me an RMA number. I sent it to them for repair and they sent it back to me looking like new.

Again, I attempted to load the revolver with a .451 round ball. Again, the loading lever got bent! Again, Navy Arms repaired the revolver.

By this time, you are probably asking; did he try to load it again with a .451 round ball. The answer is yes. And, I had some choice words for Navy Arms, who repaired the revolver again.

After getting the gun back, I decided to mic the chambers. They all measured .444 inches! That's a difference of .006" and the loading lever is just a steel sleeve with a rod inside. That explains why it bent so easily.

So, I decided to use .445 round balls as I could not find and that were .447 inches; which would be .003" over the chamber diameter. If you don't remember anything from this message, remember to mic the chmabers and select the size of your ball accordingly!

I use 25 grains of FFFG and the gun is really accurate. Don't go over 3/4 ounce of shot with 50 grains of powder for the shotgun barrel.

Exercise extreme care with the loading lever and the retaining spring. I've heard about that spring breaking and don't want to have that problem.

Regardless, of the manufacturer, I recommend that you mic all the chambers before you select the projectile.

 

[bang]

Cylinder bore size to barrel max is a typical issue with some BP revolvers. If the accuracy is good enough for you then use what works. Some ream and polish cylinder bore to accept a projectile that once enters throat will fit the barrel max diameter. My walker cylinder max was less than barrel max. I reamed and polished too 451 for a 454. Had it not been a heavy load revolver I would have brought it up to 449 and still used a 454. The measurement on my walker was low enough that it was lucky to catch 0.001 of rifling which makes a gap between the ball and barrel max diameter surface. Enough you could see light around it. This can also cause skipping and the ball looses most of its spin.

 

[Enfield58]

 

[Rifleman1776]

Back to LeMats, anyone actually OWN one and shoot it? I have a lil’ book on LeMats,

Never owned or shot one. Price kept me from buying one. But, on one of our trips east we stopped in a small national park/civil war battle site. In the basement, in a really dusty display cabinet I spotted this very unusual revolver. The park guide knew nothing about it but took my name and address. Several weeks later I received a handwritten letter from Harold Robbins describing the LeMat and it's history. I kept that letter many years but, sadly, it got lost in the shuffle somewhere. That letter would be a collectors item.

 

[Dashing Leper]

View attachment 28504

Is this to suggest that the LeMat user should turn tail because they're essentially missing a gun?

 

[Enfield58]

Is this to suggest that the LeMat user should turn tail because they're essentially missing a gun?

No turning tail.

The 1860 Army, like Jane Russell was sleek, smooth with a certain boldness.

The 1858 Remington like Gene Tierney was different, elegant but practical and like the 1860 needed to be held.

The LeMat was the Bridgette Bardot of the cap & ball revolvers. Enough said.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

No turning tail.

The 1860 Army, like Jane Russell was sleek, smooth with a certain boldness.

The 1858 Remington like Gene Tierney was different, elegant but practical and like the 1860 needed to be held.

The LeMat was the Bridgette Bardot of the cap & ball revolvers. Enough said.

Um. Okay.

 

[No second place]

Have known over a dozen owners and former owners of Le Mat`s over the years. Consensus being it looks great as a decoration but not worth shooting even after tuning. An extra 4 cylinders for my 44 Remington gets 30 shots fast and reliable. Much better if looking for more firepower...c

 

[sawyer04]

Back then the cylinders went out of timing fairly easily and the internal parts were not that good of quality and didn't last as long as parts in other repro revolvers.

been 20 years since I have seen one of these in person, it was a nightmare to get it timed and to work properly, in fact I wonder if it stayed together after it left the shop. Parts were hand made and the expense of fixing it ,I thought, was more than it was worth even as a wall hanger.

 

[Homesteader]

I owned one a decade or so ago. Wound up trading it to someone here on the forum. I really wanted to like it, but other than its unique look and history I just can't think of a thing to recommend it.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

My LeMat I noticed was rather thin walled between the chambers. So indeed mic the chambers just to be sure. The originals, as Zonie mentioned were .42 caliber, with a 16 gauge shotgun barrel, and the Italians upped the caliber somewhat and reduced the shotgun gauge, to be closer to more commonly found round ball and component diameters...or maybe a necessity when enlarging the caliber of the round ball cylinder chambers.

A cavalryman armed with a brace of these things had 18 rounds of pistol ammo, and two shots of 20 gauge shotgun loads. 15 #4 buck or 20 F size (.22) pellets at 5 yards would probably end an argument.

They were quite expensive to obtain. A cavalryman in the ACW might have been able to arm himself with three if not four Colts, plus a sawed off shotgun for less money, and have had similar firepower.

LD

 

[Rifleman1776]

Never owned or shot one. Price kept me from buying one. But, on one of our trips east we stopped in a small national park/civil war battle site. In the basement, in a really dusty display cabinet I spotted this very unusual revolver. The park guide knew nothing about it but took my name and address. Several weeks later I received a handwritten letter from Harold Robbins describing the LeMat and it's history. I kept that letter many years but, sadly, it got lost in the shuffle somewhere. That letter would be a collectors item.

Correction: Harold Peterson