Cold weather effects?

[kruzer1]

I tried searching the forum with no luck (but the search engine is tough). I wanted to ask if cold weather affected the point of impact of black powder?

The last couple days I have taken three shots at deer- all within 40-80 yards (percussion investarms .50 cal "hawken"). All 3 times deer walked away unharmed and I practied with this gun a lot this summer with these groups at 50 yards:

All shots were solid and braced, only difference I can think of is that those shots were done in 60-80 degree weather and the last few days windchill here has been at -20 or lower....

On the plus side I am happy to say switching to real black powder has been nice. The rifle has fired off in these conditions with absolutly no issues... well except the not hitting anything :-(

 

[JeffG]

You're shooting off a bench in the summer? Are you using a rest when you're hunting? Could you be jerking your trigger or looking over your sights? I've caught myself doing both at times....snuggle your cheek into that stock, and watch your front sight. You might want to head back to the range and check your cold weather zero.... Just suggestions. :hmm:
If you shot those groups at 50 yards, shooting the same load at 80 yards will give you another 20% off offset. If you're3 inches low at 50, you could be another inch or two out at 80, its an angle remember.

 

[Spikebuck]

In my experience, and I'm hunting in very cold conditions, there is no difference in impact.

First, I've actually done some testing by loading my rifles, leaving them in a very cold environment all night to be sure they were cold through and through, and then shooting just that one shot, and POI was same as summertime. I did these tests with a bench rest so that I knew it wasn't anything I was doing if it missed.

Second, I've shot numerous whitetails in very cold weather...in the neighborhood of single digits above to double digits below zero AIR temperature (windchill does not affect inanimate objects). No issues with hits. One of those was at 115 yards, one at around 80 yards, one at 89 yards, one at 35 yards, and one at about 20 (of the ones I can remember in those conditions).

I would say your issue is something else...bulky clothes changing the way you're holding your gun perhaps? Did you change anything at all in your load like a different lube? I think you stated you had a solid rest on these shots, which is something I always seek when stand hunting.

I would agree that it's time to take a few "controlled" test shots back at the range to see if you can figure it out. Make sure you're using your gun cold to mimic your hunting conditions. Wear your hunting clothes and simulate the rest as best you can.

 

[George]

One possibility usually not mentioned is that the deer has been hit and didn't fall down dead on the spot. I think a high percentage of "misses" weren't.

Spence

 

[kruzer1]

The deer just walked off, no blood trails and my ears are pretty well trained for the distinctive sound of a deer being hit. (The thwack). Also
I am in the wide open prairie with fresh snow and no blood trail.

The other factor was I was in an elevated blind, usually I hunt more traditionally but in the cold I decided to be out of the elements. Shots were stable on a better rest than those shots :idunno:

 

[jackpine54]

I shot my .54 gpr off the bench last winter at well below zero and found no difference between then and my shots fired in summer temps.
The rifle was left on the porch over night so everything should have been equally cold (barrel, powder etc.).
Remember that you are wearing more clothes in winter so it may be hard to get yourself into the same position on the stock and on the sights.

 

[kruzer1]

That could be it, wearing three layers vs a T-shirt would have a difference... Also most of my practice was not on a bench and this was like being on a bench... That should have helped though.

The closest range is a 100 miles away, so going there is not much of an option, usually I shoot not far from where I hunt, but practicing right now is likely to drive off game when I don't have much time left to hunt :hmm:

I have one center fire and one muzzleloader tag left. Was going to fill them both with muzzleloader, but looks like I will go modern and see if I can have time to practice with the muzzleloader to see what is going on...

 

[Britsmoothy]

Just take a shot at a card board box deer size chest.
One shot will tell you enough as to if you should quit this season on just adjust your aim for now! It won't scare nothing.

B :hatsoff:

 

[Clovis]

You say you switched to black powder.
Did you switch after you sighted or before?

 

[BrownBear]

In really cold weather there's a huge change in my personal performance, but not so much in the guns and loads. Most times when things go wrong, I have to do a mirror check to find the cause.

Not laying anything at your feet by any means, but I simply don't handle my gear or shoot as well when all bundled up.

 

[kruzer1]

That could be my performance- and I switched to black powder 2 years ago.

I agree a quick shot would help. I'll see if I can get out to the other farms I can shoot at to check so I don't disturb game at this one I am hunting at.

We really don't have much for ranges out here just friends with lots of wide open territory

 

[BrownBear]

We really don't have much for ranges out here just friends with lots of wide open territory.

And blessed you are! :applause:

Same for me at home in Alaska. Traveling around the country, I can see how really rare that is these days.

 

[Protrucker]

Did you ever shoot at a target from the same elevation as your stand?

 

[Sean Gadhar]

Not to :dead: but that

The deer just walked off, no blood trails and my ears are pretty well trained for the distinctive sound of a deer being hit. (The thwack).

Is bugging me,


1)The deer just walked off....in my experience wounded deer walk off, spooked deer run. You touched off a 50. cal less then 80 yards away & the deer walked off?

2)" my ears are pretty well trained for the distinctive sound of a deer being hit."

By a round ball? How many deer have you heard hit with a round ball?

:v Now all of this may be in your writing & NOT in your doing.

But I sure hope you didn't let your not hearing a " thwack" Convince you of a miss & then just do a short check for blood.....I sure hope you walked the trail for hundreds (more than one) of yards, knowing that a shot from above + extreme cold + fat deer with heavy coats + round ball could lead to a hit deer walking off & not bleeding for quit a while.

All that being so....sights get knocked, shoot that gun at some cardboard before you shoot at another deer, your confidence is likely shaken as well & you need to see that gun hit where you aim.

 

[kruzer1]

Well these deer were strange they let me shoot once and let me reload and shoot again. Only on the second shot did they move off but the eight of them walked at a slow gradual pace. I did check for trails and saw none. :idunno:

I'm an experienced hunter (traditional bow, tradional muzzleloader and center fire). I've taken most with center fire (about 50). Although less experienced with muzzleloadersbI have taken about 10 with them although all with Minnie's in my 1861 Springfield. It is my first time hunting with round all and I am wondering if the elevated blind is throwing me off as I usually still hunt or stalk most of my deer at ground level.

Throwing a few rounds out to test accuracy does sound like the best idea though.

 

[Spikebuck]

Unless you're in a stand about 100 feet up I cannot believe that at 80 or even 40 yards the angle from a stand of "normal" heights is going to be enough to affect a shot so much as to turn a perfect aim into a complete miss on a deer-sized animal.

Instead of going to the modern rifle, why not pull out the muzzleloader you've previously used with good success?

Anyway...shoot a few into a box and see what happens. Please post the results as I'm sure we're all curious to see what you find as a cause.

 

[kruzer1]

I foolishly sold that one two year's back to get parts to build different muzzleloaders :idunno: I did not like the weight and heft of it when I was stalking.

Should not have done that though it was a very accurate rife and stand hunting the size/weight of it (11 lbs.) would not have been a hindrance.

Probably most likely user error though I'm going to head out early this afternoon to shoot a few rounds at paper on a different part of the farm away from the bedding/feeding area's.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

your 50 yrd groups should be better, it looks like you are shooting low and to the right.

Here is an average 50 yrd group


and a average 100yrd group




I hunt elk in CO every year and teps can go from 20 above to 10 below and accuracy and impact are never a issue.

:hatsoff:

 

[Sean Gadhar]

based on Greenmtnboy's shooting he can likely also read the pages of a pocket Bible at 40 yards by moon light :surrender:

Dang I thought I needed several hundred more rounds of iron sight shooting to get competent after seeing your target Greenmtnboy I'll just add a zero to the end of that estimate.

 

[don hepler]

The tendency is to shoot high from an elevated stand. Just the same as shooting down hill. We tend to see the deer in one dimension. Think of the deer's body as a globe. You're trying to hit the equator, but your eyes are seeing the north pole. Up hill is just the opposite, the tendency is to shoot low. Iron sights can be hard to get used to, if you have mainly used scoped rifles. I shoot a lot of open sights, just to stay sharp. I have shot many deer with muzzle loaders, and sometimes, they just stand there, in a "stooper", and other times the blood trail is so faint, that I can over-look it. They don't go into shock, like high-powered rifles. I think about a hit, the same as an archery shot, but with less blood. Follow, the direction, or game trail, leading in the suspected direction. This is some of my personal observations. Good luck.