Colerian Barrel smooth bore

[Redbearcat]

Bought my first smooth bore at friendship this past Wednesday. Mr. Tip Curtis was kind enough to sell me a British Fowler 20 ga.

Well it turns out that the muzzle measures 0.573 across which is just short of the typical 0.579 of a 24 ga.

I figured I would have to be satisfied with the 24 After I got home and measured the muzzle so I purchased some 24ga. 0.562 round balls and patched them with 0.010 ticking.
When starting they were tight, just beyond thumb tight, needed a starter. But, after the first three inches they could be pushed down just by the weight of the wood ramrod.

Same with a doubled cloth cleaning patch, forced in but then easy and no resistance. Same coming back out until three inches from the muzzle. Then it’s a real tug to get the rod and patches back out.

This is my first post here and I was wondering if any one has heard of a barrel which may not have been reamed the entirety of it’s length.

My group size is about 2 feet. All over the place no matter if I just patch, (up to 0.018 but got it to go) or patch with tow over the powder.

Have tried Tips phone number I got from his son Tippy. Nothing yet.

In the mean time I wondered if anyone has heard of this problem.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I have a 12 gauge fowler. It was made in the 1970's. There is no indication of the maker. It has a Lott lock trade lock and a bunch of other mismatched parts. Apparently the desire was to make a full choke fowler using a salvaged full choke 12 gauge barrel. The muzzle measures 0.700" and after the choke a 12 gauge wad falls with the weight of ramrod. In my case, this is not a problem but a feature of my fowler. I am still a bit leery of using ball, but it sure does throw a tight group of shot.

You may get an answer. Any answers I have to figure out on my own.

 

[Redbearcat]

Shooting shot is good and acceptable with this one, but the versatility of having a small game “shotgun” and a large game rifle are gone.

 

[RonT]

Welp, this is interesting. My 'purchased as a 24 ga./.58 Cal. NWTG' turned out to have similarities. Took the gun to the range to dial in, and having some .570 balls already, tried to load a with a ticking patch. Not even close. So....., I loaded bare, over a card, lubed Blown-in-Cellulose Insulation wad and shot a few rounds (rolls eyes). Shot a really nice group, incedently.
Back home after cleaning I miced the balls and the bore found the measurements in the pics. I called TOW, the retailer of the barrel and was told that they were made by Colerain. But also noted that other NWTG barrels are made by an unnamed shotgun barrel manufacturer. My barrel is NOT stamped on the bottom flat other than a witness mark at Breech Plug, and after calling Colerain was asked by them if the barrel was stamped.
I'm retired from a fairly large steel tube manufacturer in North Central Ohio, having directly managed all aspects of the DOM Welded and Seamless Tube making during my years there. Stuff happens, could tell stories.
Moved on, bought a .562 Lee mold, load Olive Oil lubed paper patched, insulation wadded ball for Deer, lubed paper shot for Squirrels. Life is good.
Cheers,
R

 

[Stophel]

first off, you don't say what distance your two foot group is. Second, fowling gun = shot.

I wonder if you got a choked barrel... You should be able to shine a light down the bore and see if there is any choking there.

 

[Redbearcat]

50 yds
And a Fowler is capable of shooting round ball.
That’s the way Tip sold it. Along with recommendations for loads for round ball between 80 to 90 grains of 2f powder. That’s what he won his matches with.
It’s a smooth bore, which should be the same diameter the entire length.
I don’t think Fowler’s a limited to just shot.

 

[Redbearcat]

 

[Redbearcat]

Definitely something going on inside , there’s a slight ring is about all I can see

 

[George]

I have a Colerain 20 gauge barrel which they sell as a special turkey gun, choked from 20 gauge down to 24 gauge. Mine measures just as yours did, 24 gauge at the muzzle.

I think you have a choked bore barrel. a perfectly normal configuration.

Spence

 

[Redbearcat]

Well it was not advertised/offered as such. I feel like I’ve been to the cleaners and back.
Guess ole Tip is laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Stophel]

Now, I can't really see anything looking down your bore, so I don't know what's going on in there. IF there is something wrong with it, either Tip or Colerain will take care of it. I know Colerain is good about replacing defective barrels (it does happen), and I also know Tip Curtis. He doesn't run a fly-by-night outfit, and I'm sure there was no intention to take you or anyone else to the cleaners (frankly, no matter how frustrated you feel, the comments are premature and uncalled for). If the gun is choked, and you don't want a choked gun, talk with Tip and I'm sure he'll straighten things out. It may take a while to get ahold of him, as he may not keep normal business hours.

 

[Redbearcat]

Well Tip was very nice. I guess it’s just a saying people use about the bank thing when feeling a little burnt.
I sent off a informative email to Tip describing the situation.
I paid what he wanted, which I thought was steep according to all the posts I’ve read on this forum. About $300 more than the typical for a basic piece. And, if he doesn’t swing by and pick it up, I’ll probably be shipping it to Tennessee.
I hope he honors his mistake.

Thanks everyone for figuring out what I have in a smooth bore.

 

[dave61965]

Well it was not advertised/offered as such. I feel like I’ve been to the cleaners and back.
Guess ole Tip is laughing all the way to the bank.

Yep, you probably got a turkey choke barrel, honest mistake I’m sure, he builds lots of guns, three at a time last time I was in his shop, Tip isn’t the kind of guy that goes “laughing to the bank” building guns is his passion/hobby, he’s actually a multi millionaire and didn’t make his money building guns, I’ve done business with him, and I’ve sat and visited one on one with him, he’s a straight up guy and will make it right I’m sure.

 

[Redbearcat]

Thanks for your encouragement Dave.

I’ve saved a long time to get this and should not have implied that Tip would be anything but on the up and up. I’m sure it was an honest mistake. So my apologies to everyone who knows Tip. I’m am sorry.

Redbearcat

 

[curator]

Tip Curtis is one of the better purveyors of muzzle loading guns at various rendezvous and shoots in the Eastern US. Be respectful and sincere, he is honest and forthright. He is not one to take advantage of nimrods. He will be sure you are happy with your purchase regardless of why you are currently not.

 

[dave61965]

Thanks for your encouragement Dave.

I’ve saved a long time to get this and should not have implied that Tip would be anything but on the up and up. I’m sure it was an honest mistake. So my apologies to everyone who knows Tip. I’m am sorry.

Redbearcat

I can certainly understand your disappointment and concern, especially with some of the business practices we see today, one of Tips rifles was the first time I ever really laid out that kind of money for a muzzleloader but well worth it in my opinion, I had talked to him on the phone but I went to his shop to pick out and purchase the rifle, would be worth while if you could make it to his shop, I guarantee that.

 

[smoothshooter]

Yep, you probably got a turkey choke barrel, honest mistake I’m sure, he builds lots of guns, three at a time last time I was in his shop, Tip isn’t the kind of guy that goes “laughing to the bank” building guns is his passion/hobby, he’s actually a multi millionaire and didn’t make his money building guns, I’ve done business with him, and I’ve sat and visited one on one with him, he’s a straight up guy and will make it right I’m sure.

Agreed. Tip is as good as they come, and doesn't need the money.
His hearing is not so good, so you have to be sure he understands what you are saying sometimes when discussing gun details.
I have two of his guns.
I had the privilege of getting to visit with him for an hour and a half, or longer, on all sorts of topics one-on-one at his shop one morning a few years ago when no one else was around, and can say it was one of the best and more informative chats I've had with anyone.

 

[Redbearcat]

Well folks I’m sure Tip didn’t mean to make a mistake. I let him do all the explaining of what he had to sell. I originally was looking for a 40 cal rifled barrel long rifle. We went all around his display a Friendship and he showed me what he had. I was doing the listening. I would take down a gun from his display and he would explain all the details. The tag said 20 ga. I believed him. I didn’t even know there was such a thing as a turkey barrel in a muzzle loader until today.
I didn’t think I needed to travel all the way to Tennessee because he was closer at the NMLRA shoot. So I went and looked him up. His reputation proceeded him, highly recommended.


One question for Curator, just exactly what is your definition of Nimrod ? Are there many on this forum? I hope so! Biblically it means “mighty man the son of Ham”

 

[smo]

RBC,

I own a 16 gauge Tip Curtis gun with a Colerain barrel... it measures .653!

What do you think Mr Curtis is doing to the barrels too make them shrink?

Only joking my Friend, apparently the Colerain barrels run under sized and with out putting a micrometer in the bore.... you’ll never know it.

And I’m almost certain unless ask too do so Mr. Tip doesn’t measure each bore.

My gun is exactly the same as yours, tight at the top and looser as the ball goes down...


By the way Tip was still st Friendship Wednesday .....

You saw his Inventory and he ain’t no Spring chicken anymore, give him time too pack his goods and get home.

I think him and another Gentleman load and unload all the items you where looking at.

Try shooting without a patch, it just might work for you.

Not the best in the World but I’m not the best shot in the World either.

But two years ago, that was a two foot group too.....

FYI, the one not touching the black was all Me, not the gun.

 

[Redbearcat]

It’s a Colerian turkey barrel, shot only can be used. Without a patch the ball kinda moves around till it gets to the choke.
I’m sure Tip needed to tell me the story of his champion ship shooting with round ball, but it did not apply to this gun. He did tell me he was 83 three different times in the half hour or so we looked at different guns. After I choose the 20 ga he talked about the correct load to use. patch, etc. to achieve maximum accuracy. He also said I should aim low left? I asked why. He just kinda looked at me and said, well that’s what round balls do.
I had the staff of nmlra try to get him my phone number this morning, Saturday. They said he was still there. But I haven’t heard from him.
I’m thinking he did not know what Barrel was on the gun. I sure wasn’t going to question him if 20 ga. is what he said.
I hope he calls.