I've tried it both ways and couldn't really tell any difference. Likely need not noticeable to the human ear.
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Colonial .54 touch hole
- Thread starter Mike in FL
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Thank you Sir. This rivet is 18-8 stainless as opposed to the softer 304 analysis.
18-8 is the most corrosion resistant, hard and very high tensil strength. I believe you would split the barrel before you could fold that flange and spit the rivet. I've worked my way up to 50 grains of FF pushing a
.69 ball and it ain't loose yet.
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I'm not sure if it is faster; it does seem to result in more-consistent ignition and fewer misfires/hangfires. In the first 2,500 or so shots with this rifle, loading in this manner, I've had no hangfires and only 6 flashes in the pan w/o ignition of the primary charge. Probably half of those shots were in classes where either I or students were shooting: not a context in which I want to have ignition problems.
That’s interesting in that I always open the hole to 1/16 but I use 2F mainly. Recently purchased a Wood Runner and the touch hole already was a 1/16 so I don’t know if a fluke or they are doing them that way now. You need a nice little feather to plug your touch hole. That’s how they corrected the BP leakage in the olden days. Lol I recently purchased a nice box of feathers from a hat place. Enjoy it as it sounds like you are
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Mike in FL
50 Cal.
After shooting a lot of 3F, I have discovered the 54 is more accurate and does not leak thru the vent hole. Problem eliminated, but thanks to all who responded.
Uncle Miltie
50 Cal.
The touch hole as it comes drilled from Mr. Kibler works great. I don't see a need to enlarge it.
Mike in FL
50 Cal.
I'm not sure at all but I've always heard 1/16th is optimal. In my limited experience, most barrels come with smaller holes, be they a kit or finished gun. I've always drilled mine to that size including my Kibler. My latest Pedersoli had trouble functioning until I drilled it to 1/16th. (I am so convinced that 1/16 is best that I didn't even try the Kibler until I had enlarged the hole to that size
However, I'm guessing that the larger the flash hole the more pressure pushing the ball is lost, so there's that to consider.
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Those feathers would make some nice flies !!
Ohio Rusty ><>
Mike, what you have there is a self-priming flintlock. Shooters don't like to see this now, but back in the day, it was considered an advantage because it eliminated one step in the loading procedure, i.e. priming. My only flintlocks at this time are smoothbores, but most of them have 5/64" touch holes. I think the vent on my Charleville is .078". I use Goex FFg and have not noted any leakage.
If you don't want it to self prime (and they didn't always, even back then), you put a plug in the touch-hole and just pull it out when you are ready to shoot. This keeps the main charge from absorbing atmospheric moisture, also. This was referenced in Magné de Marolles' An Essay on Shooting, from 1789 (if I read the Roman numerals correctly...): "But, whether the practice is to prime before or after loading the piece, it is highly proper, after every discharge, to prick the touch hole, and what is still better, to guard against all remains of fuse or squib, by inserting into the touch-hole the feather of a partridge's wing, which will not only clear it of the dangerous remains, but, if the piece is delayed to be re-charged, will take away all humidity that will be contracted there" (p. 194).
At this point, it may be a good time to insert "the Audubon quote," in which John James Audubon, circa 1810, described his host preparing to go raccoon hunting:
"… He blows through his rifle to ascertain that it is clear, examines his flint, and thrusts a feather into the touch-hole. To a leathern bag swung at his side is attached a powder-horn; his sheath-knife is there also; below hangs a narrow strip of homespun linen. He takes from his bag a bullet, pulls with his teeth the wooden stopper from his powder-horn, lays the ball in one hand, and with the other pours the powder upon it until it is just overtopped. Raising the horn to his mouth, he again closes it with the stopper, and restores it to its place. He introduces the powder into the tube; springs the box of his gun, greases the "patch" over with some melted tallow, or damps it; then places it on the honey-combed muzzle of his piece. The bullet is placed on the patch over the bore, and pressed with the handle of the knife, which now trims the edge of the linen. The elastic hickory rod, held with both hands, smoothly pushes the ball to its bed; once, twice, thrice has it rebounded. The rifle leaps as it were into the hunter’s arms, the feather is drawn from the touch-hole, the powder fills the pan, which is closed. “Now I’m ready,” cries the woodsman…."
Journals, Vol. 2, (1972 reprint), page 492.
Note that the rifle carried by the hunter in Audubon's description "self primes" when the feather is withdrawn.
However, safety is a concern here. You don't want an accidental discharge while loading! That's exactly what killed Walter Cline, although I think he was loading a percussion rifle that was capped. You need to make sure that the half-**** position on your flintlock is very secure, especially if you load with the pan closed. Also, it is a good idea to put a leather hammerstall on your frizzen while loading. This is a little leather sheath for the frizzen that keeps the flint from striking steel if the **** falls accidentally. I took musket training at St. Augustine some years ago, and while we shot only blank loads with paper wadding, the loading procedure included priming from the paper cartridge before putting the main charge in the barrel and ramming the wad, but with the lock at half-**** and a hammerstall on the frizzen this was considered safe.
If your rifle leaks powder through the touch-hole, I think it's a good idea for you to use a hammerstall on the frizzen while loading. I made a couple of extras, and if you PM your address to me, I'll send you one. These are easy to make from scrap leather. I don't know the dimensions of the frizzen on that Kibler lock, but the extra hammerstalls I have were made for an L&R Queen Anne, which is also a fairly large, round-faced English lock, so maybe these will fit the Kibler, too.
Notchy Bob
If you don't want it to self prime (and they didn't always, even back then), you put a plug in the touch-hole and just pull it out when you are ready to shoot. This keeps the main charge from absorbing atmospheric moisture, also. This was referenced in Magné de Marolles' An Essay on Shooting, from 1789 (if I read the Roman numerals correctly...): "But, whether the practice is to prime before or after loading the piece, it is highly proper, after every discharge, to prick the touch hole, and what is still better, to guard against all remains of fuse or squib, by inserting into the touch-hole the feather of a partridge's wing, which will not only clear it of the dangerous remains, but, if the piece is delayed to be re-charged, will take away all humidity that will be contracted there" (p. 194).
At this point, it may be a good time to insert "the Audubon quote," in which John James Audubon, circa 1810, described his host preparing to go raccoon hunting:
"… He blows through his rifle to ascertain that it is clear, examines his flint, and thrusts a feather into the touch-hole. To a leathern bag swung at his side is attached a powder-horn; his sheath-knife is there also; below hangs a narrow strip of homespun linen. He takes from his bag a bullet, pulls with his teeth the wooden stopper from his powder-horn, lays the ball in one hand, and with the other pours the powder upon it until it is just overtopped. Raising the horn to his mouth, he again closes it with the stopper, and restores it to its place. He introduces the powder into the tube; springs the box of his gun, greases the "patch" over with some melted tallow, or damps it; then places it on the honey-combed muzzle of his piece. The bullet is placed on the patch over the bore, and pressed with the handle of the knife, which now trims the edge of the linen. The elastic hickory rod, held with both hands, smoothly pushes the ball to its bed; once, twice, thrice has it rebounded. The rifle leaps as it were into the hunter’s arms, the feather is drawn from the touch-hole, the powder fills the pan, which is closed. “Now I’m ready,” cries the woodsman…."
Journals, Vol. 2, (1972 reprint), page 492.
Note that the rifle carried by the hunter in Audubon's description "self primes" when the feather is withdrawn.
However, safety is a concern here. You don't want an accidental discharge while loading! That's exactly what killed Walter Cline, although I think he was loading a percussion rifle that was capped. You need to make sure that the half-**** position on your flintlock is very secure, especially if you load with the pan closed. Also, it is a good idea to put a leather hammerstall on your frizzen while loading. This is a little leather sheath for the frizzen that keeps the flint from striking steel if the **** falls accidentally. I took musket training at St. Augustine some years ago, and while we shot only blank loads with paper wadding, the loading procedure included priming from the paper cartridge before putting the main charge in the barrel and ramming the wad, but with the lock at half-**** and a hammerstall on the frizzen this was considered safe.
If your rifle leaks powder through the touch-hole, I think it's a good idea for you to use a hammerstall on the frizzen while loading. I made a couple of extras, and if you PM your address to me, I'll send you one. These are easy to make from scrap leather. I don't know the dimensions of the frizzen on that Kibler lock, but the extra hammerstalls I have were made for an L&R Queen Anne, which is also a fairly large, round-faced English lock, so maybe these will fit the Kibler, too.
Notchy Bob
hanshi
Cannon
It is not unusual and almost normal for guns to be built with a tiny vent hole and only a "starter notch" on the rear sight blade. This gives the owner the chance to "custom-wise" sight in and also to decide the size of vent hole the owner feels works best. I can't ever recall having any (new) flintlock that DID NOT display both characteristics. It's not a defect! I recall shooting my favorite .45 just as it came from the box. During the sight-in process it was necessary to deepen and widen the rear notch for a clear view of the front sight.
It was a reliable sparker to start with but on occasion it would give a FITP. That's when I drilled it out to 1/16" and it was totally reliable after that. It never "self primed" without help. But I could often smack the off side of the breech and get at least 3 or 4 kernals of 3F into the pan which was enough to often fire the rifle.
The builder's job is to build a good gun, period. He won't load it, mount a flint and sight it in for you. He also won't (usually) drill the vent hole to please himself. The owner can drill it larger but if too large he can't make it smaller without replacing the liner.
It was a reliable sparker to start with but on occasion it would give a FITP. That's when I drilled it out to 1/16" and it was totally reliable after that. It never "self primed" without help. But I could often smack the off side of the breech and get at least 3 or 4 kernals of 3F into the pan which was enough to often fire the rifle.
The builder's job is to build a good gun, period. He won't load it, mount a flint and sight it in for you. He also won't (usually) drill the vent hole to please himself. The owner can drill it larger but if too large he can't make it smaller without replacing the liner.
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The OP says that his pan fills up completely.
Two things……. He’s either using ffffg, or that touch hole is way bigger than 1/16”.
Something’s amiss.
Two things……. He’s either using ffffg, or that touch hole is way bigger than 1/16”.
Something’s amiss.
Mike in FL
50 Cal.
As I said, the issue is solved. Thanks
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Hi,
Jim Kibler in his post said the vent holes are already drilled to 1/16" . If you drilled it larger, it was not with a 1/16" drill but something bigger. The question is how much bigger?
dave
Mike in FL
50 Cal.
No doubt it was 1/16. I checked the not with a micrometer. Don't know why this thread is still alive. As I've said, the rifle likes 2F much better and that granulation does not leak into the pan
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Hi Mike,
Good, I am glad you have solved it. I like 2F powder for a lot of my shooting too although 3F Swiss is superb in some of my guns. 2F powder is shifted with a wire mesh of 16 wires to the inch. 3F is sifted in a mesh 20 wires to the inch so the granule size is less than 1/16". Regardless, your experience seems to be unique. When I build guns, and I've built many, I routinely drill the vent hole out to 1/16" diameter. I almost always use white lightning vent liners that are basically the same as Jim Kibler uses. Occasionally on barrels with large diameter breeches and thick barrel walls, like military muskets and carbines on which I install vent liners for reliability and safety for reenactors, I drill the liner out to 5/64" . None of those guns ever experienced powder leakage as you describe using 2F or 3F powder.
dave
Good, I am glad you have solved it. I like 2F powder for a lot of my shooting too although 3F Swiss is superb in some of my guns. 2F powder is shifted with a wire mesh of 16 wires to the inch. 3F is sifted in a mesh 20 wires to the inch so the granule size is less than 1/16". Regardless, your experience seems to be unique. When I build guns, and I've built many, I routinely drill the vent hole out to 1/16" diameter. I almost always use white lightning vent liners that are basically the same as Jim Kibler uses. Occasionally on barrels with large diameter breeches and thick barrel walls, like military muskets and carbines on which I install vent liners for reliability and safety for reenactors, I drill the liner out to 5/64" . None of those guns ever experienced powder leakage as you describe using 2F or 3F powder.
dave
