Colonial knife question

[Loyalist Dave]

I find it interesting that the Scot on the left of the front line is wearing trews, which I associate w/ lowlanders, but also a dirk on his chest? What's the rest of the story on the painting?
What's the fallicy in my understanding? Thanks.

Actually the Scott on the left in trews appears to be wearing a sword belt, the hilt of which appears to be peaking out from beside his left thigh. As for trews being "lowland" well Norman MacLeod Chief of The Highland Clan MacLeod, was painted in plaid trews in 1747. Actually quite similar to the lad in the painting, and perhaps the lad was also an ancestor of MacLeod.

IF a person wants to use an item that's a different thing than whether it's Historically Correct. The question of historically correct is one of scholarship, while use is one of personal choice.

You will find "dirks" with a tiny fork and knife incorporated into the sheath in some stores or online. I have one such myself. The only reference that I've found to them in North America (iirc) was General Wolf presenting his officers with them. The general had invited the officers to dinner but as a joke had not told them to bring utensils, nor were any provided, whereupon he presented them each with a custom made dirk and fork/knife combo. So such things actually existed, but how common would it be that I would be able to historically have such a dirk and utensil rig?

LD

 

[Artificer]

I find it interesting that the Scot on the left of the front line is wearing trews, which I associate w/ lowlanders, but also a dirk on his chest? What's the rest of the story on the painting?
What's the fallicy in my understanding? Thanks.

Hi Flinty Scot,

What really set Lowlanders apart from even earlier in the 18th century, is they dressed the same as the English. That normally meant breeches and stockings until it got cold enough to wear trews.

It is a common misconception that Highlanders didn't wear trews during this period. You better believe they did when it got cold enough and it SURE got cold enough during a Highland Winter and especially on Clan held islands. GRIN.

I can vouch for this from having worn a period correct weight Philabeag (Short Kilt) and period correct thick diced hose when we got snowed on. Yes, I was wearing the Short Kilt "authentically" or "regimentally." I was actually surprised it wasn't too bad, BUT it barely got down to about 30 degrees Fahrenheit that day. I would NOT want to try it ten degrees colder and the Highlands could and did get that cold or colder in the winter.

Now, what you would almost certainly would NOT have seen a Lowlander Scot do was wear a Tartan Plaid set of Trews in this period. There was widespread belief in the Lowlands that Highlanders were crude to downright barbaric and no Lowlander would want to look like that.

Here is the entire painting, entitled An incident in the rebellion of 1745 by David Morier

" This is a painting depicting the battle of Culloden, where the Jacobite army was defeated by Hanovarian troops in 1746. It was painted in 1746, not long after the battle. The artist is said to have used Jacobite prisoners for his models of the tartan, trews, and great kilt/belted-plaid wearing Jacobite soldiers, and for this reason the painting is considered a reliable depiction of Highland male clothing of the time. In particular, that some of the individual Jacobite soldiers are shown wearing several different tartan patterns all at the same time is considered a significant indication of the lack of a "clan tartan" concept at the time."

The Artist was David Morier, who was also paid by the Duke of Cumberland to paint a series of Grenadier and other Soldiers' Paintings of the British Army.

"David Morier, (1705? – Around 8 January 1770) was an Anglo-Swiss painter of portraits, military subjects and historical scenes around and after the time of the War of the Austrian Succession and the related Jacobite rising of 1745. His most recognisable work is entitled "An Incident in the Rebellion of 1745"[1] but is more commonly known as "The Battle of Culloden".

Morier thrived during the 1750s under the patronage of the Duke of Cumberland, the effective commander-in-chief of the British Army. He produced a number of equestrian portraits, of his patron and other senior officers, as well as his greatest series of works, known as the Grenadier Paintings, which document the uniforms and equipment of the Army in the years leading up to the Seven Years' War. After the Duke lost his position due to his inept leadership in this new war, Morier's career went into decline. He was jailed for debt in the Fleet prison in 1769 and died there early the next year.[2]"

David Morier - Wikipedia

Gus

 

[Rató:rats]

Actually the Scott on the left in trews appears to be wearing a sword belt, the hilt of which appears to be peaking out from beside his left thigh. As for trews being "lowland" well Norman MacLeod Chief of The Highland Clan MacLeod, was painted in plaid trews in 1747. Actually quite similar to the lad in the painting, and perhaps the lad was also an ancestor of MacLeod.

View attachment 85030

IF a person wants to use an item that's a different thing than whether it's Historically Correct. The question of historically correct is one of scholarship, while use is one of personal choice.

You will find "dirks" with a tiny fork and knife incorporated into the sheath in some stores or online. I have one such myself. The only reference that I've found to them in North America (iirc) was General Wolf presenting his officers with them. The general had invited the officers to dinner but as a joke had not told them to bring utensils, nor were any provided, whereupon he presented them each with a custom made dirk and fork/knife combo. So such things actually existed, but how common would it be that I would be able to historically have such a dirk and utensil rig?

LD

That was General George Howe, not Wolfe. General Howe also didn’t take a valet on campaign and shockingly washed his own clothes, and suggested his officers do the same!! Very interesting guy, a companion of Robert Rogers on some of his scouts.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

That was General George Howe, not Wolfe. General Howe also didn’t take a valet on campaign and shockingly washed his own clothes, and suggested his officers do the same!! Very interesting guy, a companion of Robert Rogers on some of his scouts.

Thanks for clearing that up..., ..., and wasn't he the guy who also got the officers to lighten their kit as well as do their own washing.? A blanket and a "bearskin" blanket was all he wanted them to carry for bedding?

LD

 

[Rató:rats]

Thanks for clearing that up..., ..., and wasn't he the guy who also got the officers to lighten their kit as well as do their own washing.? A blanket and a "bearskin" blanket was all he wanted them to carry for bedding?

LD

Exactly Dave,That’s the man. He made a number of changes to the uniform and tactics of the 55th, essentially turning the regiment into a light infantry unit years before Gage’s 80th became Britain’s first official light infantry regiment. Sadly he died in a skirmish the day before the battle of Carillon in 1758 at 33. Wolfe called Howe “The finest Officer in the British army”.

As to the Bollock dag the OP showed us,while it wouldn’t have been common, maybe even unlikely, to see it in 18th century NA, it’s more PC then some of the alleged historically correct knives with curly maple handles sold by makers on this forum. I say have at it and enjoy the nice piece on your belt.

 

[oreclan]

There is a mention of a Dirk in my distant uncle's memoirs.

Memoir Col. Thomas Knowlton

At the battle wood creek 1758 he described a Frenchman using a Dirk.

"At this stage of the conflict, Knowlton, on entering a small
open space, saw a Frenchman enter on the opposite side. Each snapped
his musket, and both muskets missed fire. As neither of them had bay-
onets, the Frenchman endeavored to draw a dirk, but before he could
succeed, Knowlton had clasped him around the waist and now exerted all his strength to throw him."

Very nice; however a 'dirk' is a particular type of knife or dagger, not necessarily Scottish in origin. For example midshipmen in the world's navies were usually armed with them during this period.
See below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirk

 

[oreclan]

Given the time period(1780’s-1820’s), how common would a Scottish dirk be or be used?
I ask because I found one at a garage sale and it seems to be a decent piece(for a very good price).
I’d like to use it as a belt knife due to the attractiveness of it.
View attachment 69155View attachment 69156View attachment 69157

I have one exactly like this. It was made in India or Pakistan( I forget which.) ,i.e. an economy version of the Scottish Dirk. I fitted an 1854 Enfield bayonet scabbard tip to end of the sheath to 'dress it up.'

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Very nice; however a 'dirk' is a particular type of knife or dagger, not necessarily Scottish in origin. For example midshipmen in the world's navies were usually armed with them during this period.

The Wikipedia article refers to them as "naval dirk" and "highland dirk" or "Scottish dirk". Sorry if I was lazy and merely wrote, "dirk".

LD