Colorado GMU 20 or 7?

[Wink]

Anyone familiar with these units and the elk populations these areas? Thanks Wink

 

[Kentuckywindage]

20 is estes park area so i damn sure would give that a try. Unit 7 looks tiny

 

[longcruise]

Much of 20 is Rocky Mountain National park. The area to the east of RMNP to the foothills holds quite a few elk. It also holds quite a few day hikers and mountain bikers. :shocked2:

If you are going to hunt 20, plan to do some serious scouting in the last week of August or better yet the first week of September. The elk will tend to change their habits a bit after the bowhunters have been in the field for a week or so.

To hunt 20 effectively, you should plan to carry your camp on your back so as to avoid long daily hikes in and out just to get into elk.

Unit 7 also holds quite a few elk. To be successful in 7 you need to plan to hike in a bit too. There are quite a few roads in the lower part of 7 from the Laramie River to about half way up into the unit to the west. Roadhunters will keep the elk away from those roads. Use those roads to get where you want to hunt and then hoof it. If a 4X4 or ATV can access your hunt area (legally or illegaly ), then you need to get further in. The one mile mark from easy access seems to be kinda magic in elk hunting. Even if you see a lot of sign without going too far in, you can be sure that once bow season opens most of the elk will have moved away from the vehicle access points. Seven is another unit where having your camp on your back will kbe helpful.

Get the Arapahoe/Roosevelt National Forest map to choose your general hunt areas for either 7 or 20. Then use topos for more detailed focusing on likely looking spots.

If you go to this page at the DOW and select interactive GMU maps you can learn a lot! Link

 

[laufer]

what marmotslayer said + a lot of private property in 20 east from the park.

 

[longcruise]

a lot of private property in 20 east from the park

Yup. I shoulda mentioned that! Another reason for good maps.

 

[BS]

If..............I remember right, 20 is better in the later season, when the snow pushes them out of the Park, down to lower ground.

Or hope for an early snow......or hunt late.

 

[longcruise]

If..............I remember right, 20 is better in the later season, when the snow pushes them out of the Park, down to lower ground.

Actually, the park and areas east of it are areas of rather light snow accumulation relative to what it takes to move elk. It varies from year to year, but you can go up into the park right now and find them in the high mountain valleys. Many move east right into town. Matter of fact, many of them hang around town and on the golf course all year long.

Here is a couple pictures I took the last week end of September a few years ago

If you know the estes park area you will recognize the lake just east of downtown where these were taken.

The bull below was at about 9,500 feet in the park in February

 

[Wink]

In unit 20,is any one familiar with the trail that leads east into the National Forest from the campground near Peaceful Valley along the Saint Vrain Creek? Im just wondering if this area holds elk, what the terrain and pressure is like and if this is a good jump off point. I've never hunted Elk before and Im hoping to do a DIY ML cow elk hunt and begin the learning process. My first step is to just find a suitable area and learn it. Thanks Wink

 

[longcruise]

In unit 20,is any one familiar with the trail that leads east into the National Forest from the campground near Peaceful Valley along the Saint Vrain Creek? Im just wondering if this area holds elk, what the terrain and pressure is like and if this is a good jump off point. I've never hunted Elk before and Im hoping to do a DIY ML cow elk hunt and begin the learning process. My first step is to just find a suitable area and learn it. Thanks Wink

I've camped at Peacful Valley and Camp Dick but have always gone west up the creek. That was to fish, never hunted up there. Looking at the maps, etc., I don't have an answer for your question. But, I have a few questions that might help me help you.

Are you planning to hunt this year? If so, you have until april 7th to decide. the thing that makes it a bit urgent is this; If you plan to hunt 7 or 20, they are both specific draw units. IOW. If you draw 20 you can only hunt 20. If you draw 7, you can hunt 7, 8, 9, 19 and 191. If you are hunting later than this year or you have time to come out and scout extensively prior to the season, then you might have a good hunt in 20. If you are starting in cold on opening morning in 20, even if you have the whole season to hunt you might find it tough going as far as getting into elk goes. Your biggest frustration will for sure be the number of hikers and mountain bikers, etc.

Unit 7+ gives you a lot more country to choose from but again without the opportunity to preseason scout, it could be tough.

Since you are going for a cow hunt, it's my suggestion that you apply for a "statewide" cow tag. That will buy you time to explore hunt areas either in person or online/with maps/etc. The fact that a unit is a draw unit does not make it especially desireable in and of itself. Both 20 and 7+ are draw units mostly for the sake of people management rather than game management. Twenty because it is so populated and also easily accessible to the millions of people who live within 75 miles of unit 20. 7+ also has people management issues in that much of the area is easily accessed by roads.

Game management units that are draw don't necessarily have overwhelming people conflicts during the archery or ml seasons, but they do during regular rifle seasons. They are thus made draw units for all hunt methods on the basis of "fairness". IOW the real problem appears during the rifle season and that's when hunter numbers need to be "managed". In fact, both units 7 and 20 had fewer first choice applicants for ml cow tags last year than were alloted.

Some units that are draw are considered highly desireable for a trophy bull hunt and those units seem to get a lot of applicants for cow tags too. Maybe they are the buddies of guys who have enough points to draw a bull tag or maybe they are just guys who want to hunt the area to get to know it.

Unit 10 is a good example. There were 12 applicants for 6 ml cow tags in 2008. Ten is a good trophy bull unit but not special for a cow elk hunt. Go figger.

If you decide to apply for a "statewide" cow tag, let me know and I'll PM you some ideas on hunting areas.

 

[Wink]

Marmotslayer, thank you for the information and the time you dedicated to your response. Its guys like you that make this website so great. First off, I do not plan on doing a hunt this fall, I'm in the planning stages for fall 2010. I've been researching units where my probability of getting a Non resident Cow tag each year are good and where a Bull tag can be obtained within 3 years. The other criteria I was looking at was the amount of public land and access. I'm 45 years old and have been hunting with Bow and Gun for well over 30 years so I'm way beyond the " I've got to kill something stage". For me a successful hunt would consist of just seeing an Elk in the wild. Chances are I'll be making this trip solo. I'm in good physical condition and work out a minimum of 5 days a week.So a reasonable hike doesn't scare me. Any information or advice you or others might be willing to give would be appreciated. I promise that if I do make it out on a hunt, I'll leave the resource better than I found it. Thanks Wink

 

[longcruise]

I like your attitude and hunting style. :thumbsup:

Ok, heres a resource for you to start with in terms of draw probabilities and results. Go to the link below and download the 2008 stats for elk "Drawing Summaries" and elk "hunt recap summaries". Using these you can calculate your odds of drawing in any given unit or statewide draw classification. This is all based on last years draw results so it does not guarantee that this years will be the same. But as with all statistics, the larger the sample the more accurate and repeatable it will be. So a draw that offered many licenses is more reliably calculated than one that offers only a handful of tags.

CO DOW Stats page

The stat sheets are internal documents that are used by dow for their own purposes. Therefore, there is no lengthy explanation of how to use them. Using them is a bit complicated but once you get on to it you can come very close to calculating your odds of drawing any given tag. The hunt recap summaries are especially useful.

On that same page you will see a series of reports titled "preference points required". Ignore those reports as well as the annual report in the Colorado Outdoors Magazine. The way those reports work is this; If there were 100 tags for elk and 200 people applied for them and 99 of the applicants had one preference point and the other 101 had no preference points, that would mean that one person drew a tag with no points. Those reports will tell you that it took zero points to draw a tag. Obviously, one person without a point drew and the odds for anyone with no points to draw were 1%. :shocked2:

This is where the recap summaries come in. I'll try to figure out how to post an explanation of how to read the summaries and calculate.

One last thing. Since you are planning to hunt in 2010, you can still apply this year for a preference point only. That will give you one year headstart on building your points.

 

[longcruise]

Here is an explanation of how the draw works

How it works

Don't overlook the first rifle elk season that opens the second saturday in October. High success rate and not too crowded. ML is legal. No deer hunters so fewer hunters in the field. Downside is that it's only a five day season.

 

[oletymepreacher]

I have hunted unit 7 since 1977, with excellent results. First season second only to muzzleloading season. Hunting high and west of the Laramie River is where the best places are.
Access there is by foot or horse, and the best suggestion is to get along any trail for at least 10 miles, then set up camp there.

Pre season scouting will confuse you. In late August Shipman park is crowded with elk, but they know when hunting season starts and head for the black timber. You might find elk at 8,000 ft, but during the seasons higher probabilities lie above 9,000 ft. I would still recommend pre season scouting there, or anywhere else you plan to hunt to get a good lay of the land. Hint:look for beaten down game trails. I have found many areas where the bulls have stripped trees with removing the velvet, but have never found elk nearby during the seasons. Most likely they are done with removing velvet and will be looking for cows by mid September, and will be herded up with them by the first general rifle season.

Marmotslayer had some good ideas about stats, applying for a preference point this year, and scouting-do this with maps, Google earth also. You sound like you are in good shape. I would add climbing hills to your skills-there is nothing flat here. When I had hunters coming from out of state, I had them come early before the season started to get somewhat acclimated to the altitude.Some years they would show up on the Monday before season started, some years on Wednesday. Their stamina was better if they came in on Monday.

Elk are heavy animals and getting them out of the woods has killed more than a few hunters. For this, getting used to climbing (uphill as well as downhill) and carrying 100 pounds is necessary unless you bring or rent a horse.

I have never hunted Unit 20, so can't say much about it

Colorado is a wonderful state for elk hunting, and I wish you the best. Sorry, but I won't divuldge exactly where my honeyholes are, I'm sure you understand.

 

[Wink]

Thanks I have taken your information to heart and applied for my preference point on line this weekend. Prevoius to your post I had been looking at the Rawah wilderness area in GMU 7 specifically the Shipman Park area. I'm not too concerned about the hike in but I'm wondering if its even possible to to pack an Elk out from that distance on foot. Your experience and input in these matters will be greatly appreciated.Also what kind of hunting pressure did you encounter in this area? And are there any likely areas more logistically possible for someone going in on foot? Thanks Wink

 

[longcruise]

Thanks I have taken your information to heart and applied for my preference point on line this weekend. Prevoius to your post I had been looking at the Rawah wilderness area in GMU 7 specifically the Shipman Park area. I'm not too concerned about the hike in but I'm wondering if its even possible to to pack an Elk out from that distance on foot. Your experience and input in these matters will be greatly appreciated.Also what kind of hunting pressure did you encounter in this area? And are there any likely areas more logistically possible for someone going in on foot?

Your on the right track with the Rawah if you plan to hunt 7. oletymepreacher gave you as good a bit of advice as you can get for that area.

As far as packing the elk out. If you completely bone the animal out, one cow can be carried out in two trips. They will be heavy packs and you might spend some considerable time getting the meat out. You need a good quality pack frame to do do this. Your meat should go into game bags first and line your pack with garbage bags to protect the pack from draining blood. If you want the hide and/or head, that would be another trip but of lesser weight.

 

[Wink]

In my state we have to register alll big game that is havested at a DNR, DOW check station. Are the requirements the same in Colorado?

 

[paulvallandigham]

I worked a Deer Check Station years ago in S. Illinois, with similar rules to what you still have in Wisconsin( We call in the kills now.) One man brought in a completely skinned deer, but he had the hide, head, and feet he had cut off, so we could add them to the scale. We went ahead and weighed the aggregate for the records, and sent him on his way. We did tell him that he should bring a field dressed, only, deer the next time.

I can't imagine a Jury convicting any hunter who has to backpack out an Elk of this minor Offense, even if an officer would issue such a ticket, and a prosecutor was inclined to prosecute the case. The purpose of the check in system in all states is to make sure people who are killing game during the seasons have purchased the proper permits and licenses for the animal taken. Where a state limits the tags to a particular county, or UNIT, the check also allows the State Game Department to do better herd size management from year to year by keeping track of how many deer of both sexes are taken during the season in that area.

 

[longcruise]

In my state we have to register alll big game that is havested at a DNR, DOW check station. Are the requirements the same in Colorado?

No, don't need to do that with an elk. Bears, Mtn Lions, Sheep and Goats get checked in though.

What you gotta do is as soon as you kill the animal you date and sign the carcass tag and remove the tag from the license. You don't have to attach the tag until the meat is in camp or loaded on a vehicle.

The most common mistake made by hunters is failure to leave evidence of sex on the meat. The way you do that is when you skin the animal you skin around one side of the mammary glands on a cow and then leave that attached to the meat from of the rear quarters. That is acceptable to DOW personnel. When you bone these critters it's possible to take most of the meat off one hind quarter in one piece.

You have a good chance of having your meat checked by a warden in your camp and sometimes they set up impromptu check stations along the road.

 

[longcruise]

I can't imagine a Jury convicting any hunter who has to backpack out an Elk of this minor Offense, even if an officer would issue such a ticket, and a prosecutor was inclined to prosecute the case.

In Colorado, for failure to detach and sign carcass tag, failure to attach the tag to the kill after arriving in camp or transporting in a vehicle or failure to leave evidence of sex attached, a hunter will definetly be cited. They do understand the need for hunters without horses to bone out animals and I think they actually have a bit of a tutorial on how to do it on the DOW site.

The purpose of the check in system in all states is to make sure people who are killing game during the seasons have purchased the proper permits and licenses for the animal taken. Where a state limits the tags to a particular county, or UNIT, the check also allows the State Game Department to do better herd size management from year to year by keeping track of how many deer of both sexes are taken during the season in that area.

I encountered that several years ago during a hunt in wisconsin. Their rules seemed to be all about prior restraint. For example, I bought an Archery license but was not allowed to hunt for three days after buying the license. I intended to buy an ML tag but they would not sell an ML tag after the season had opened. The clerk suggested that the reason for the three day wait and no sale after start of ml season was to prevent people from killing an animal and then going in to buy the license. This all assumes that a poacher/violator would go buy a license after shooting a deer without one. :rotf: :rotf:

Now, I ask you, how many poachers/violators would do that. :haha:

Colorado collects deer, elk, antelope and small game harvest info via phone surveys after the season is over. They use a consistent sampling method and seem to get pretty accurate counts.

The reason for checking bears, sheep, goats and antelope is because the population and harvest levels are so low, it gives them the ability to more accurately track the condition of those populations.

 

[oletymepreacher]

Yes, it is possible to pack an elk out of Shipman Park, but it is not for the weak of heart or the unfit. McIntire trail is about 10+ miles into Shipman. I have known a few men who have made the trip with elk on their backs. Don't know if they substituted golf for elk hunting.

Hunting pressure never seems to be enough. However there are two outfitters working the area you are interested in. One outfitter places his hunters on stands along Medicine Bow Trail. He drops them off before light and tells them he'll be back after dark. Most of these guys will be within a mile either side of Ute Pass. This outfitter's camp is along the Mcintire trail where it breaks off toward Housmer Park. If his hunters are unsuccessful on their stands along the Medicine Bow, he will take them up into Housmer. These guys have the best stand hunting in the area, and the hunters won't leave their stands. The idea is for the do it yourselfers to push elk toward them. The other outfitter camps along Sand Creek just south of the East Sand Hill. His guys are more mobile but spend most of their time in unit 6.

Should you trek in via the trailhead at Glendevy, there will be a LOT of trucks parked there, but don't be scared off. Once they get into the woods, you may not ever see them again. I personally have not had any kills in Shipman, as I have never seen elk there during the seasons. The elk spend most of the summer there, but climb a bit higher during the muzzleloading season. Easier access is through Jackson County road 8A. Just take it to the end, you will be 'on top' and only have to traipse in a few miles for the elk.

Other than the outfitters and a very few hardy souls with horses will be very far back in the woods. I try to get away from the other hunters so use horses for access. You might look into renting a horse if you don't have one. If you have no or little experience with horses , it might be better staying away from them.

In spite of what is in the DOW's stats, Unit 7 is a good producer for someone who hunts hard, avoids the outfitters' guys, and covers a lot of ground. I have had big camps with up to 20 guys, and the last ten years the camp is me and my wife. Either size camp works if it has hunters.