Preacher,one last question. How difficult is the trail to follow from the Trailhead off Co rd 8A? And finally thank you for you time and willingness to share your experience.Hopefully I'll see on the Mountain someday. If you ever need someone to accompany you and help with the grunt work let me know. Thanks Again Wink.
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Colorado GMU 20 or 7?
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paulvallandigham
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I think the real reason for the NO sale of tags after the season starts is to put an end the " Weekend " warriors, who buy a gun, bullets, a hunting, license, a case of beer and a bottle of whiskey and head to the woods on opening day. This kind of " slob hunter" is responsible for a higher percentage of Hunting/shooting accidents, than hunters who plan their hunts weeks and months in advance, practice with their guns and site them in before the season opens, rather than just taking to the woods with a gun they have never fired, and with which they are not familiar.
More recently, Game Departments have begun following Colorado's example, by requiring anyone born after a certain date to take the Hunter Safety Court before they can buy a license to hunt in that state. Colorado imposed their rule the earliest, as a way to cut down on the huge number of hunters wounded and killed by other hunters in " accidents " during the season. Since Hunting is such a huge tourist Dollar even in states like Colorado, they didn't want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs, by sending too many hunters back home in body bags. Unless you were born before January 1, 1949, you have to have completed a H-S course in order to hunt Colorado. That means anyone who is younger than 60 years old, needs to have taken the course, somewhere, sometime, and show their H-S certificate to prove they have taken the course. Illinois recently adopted a regulation requiring anyone born after Jan. 1, 1980 to have to take the H-S course to buy a hunting license, here.
More recently, Game Departments have begun following Colorado's example, by requiring anyone born after a certain date to take the Hunter Safety Court before they can buy a license to hunt in that state. Colorado imposed their rule the earliest, as a way to cut down on the huge number of hunters wounded and killed by other hunters in " accidents " during the season. Since Hunting is such a huge tourist Dollar even in states like Colorado, they didn't want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs, by sending too many hunters back home in body bags. Unless you were born before January 1, 1949, you have to have completed a H-S course in order to hunt Colorado. That means anyone who is younger than 60 years old, needs to have taken the course, somewhere, sometime, and show their H-S certificate to prove they have taken the course. Illinois recently adopted a regulation requiring anyone born after Jan. 1, 1980 to have to take the H-S course to buy a hunting license, here.
Kentuckywindage
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good thinkin! Send all the drunks to hunters education and it will set them straight :bow:
oletymepreacher
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Following the Medicine Bow trail south from the end of 8A is easy. It is marked with rock cairns, and blazes on trees. Plus it is an old abandoned road and is the top of a ridge.
Google earth shows the trails adequately, as does any of the National Geographic series of maps/computer software. An interesting book on the subject of the Rawah Wilderness is available from Barnes and Noble, and today we saw a few copies at REI. title is: 'Backcountry adventure guide to Colorado's Rawah Wilderness' written by Raymond Ave. ISBN # 0-9741755-1-X, printed by Worzalla, Stevens Point Wisconsin.
I will be in the Rawah this summer. Should you make a trip there for scouting this summer, send a PM, and I will help all I can. I can usually move schedule around with a minimum of 2 weeks notice to accomodate. If I show you where to elk hunt, maybe you could show me where to hunt muskies.
The State of Colorado does not remunerate those who encourage tourism or big game hunting.
Google earth shows the trails adequately, as does any of the National Geographic series of maps/computer software. An interesting book on the subject of the Rawah Wilderness is available from Barnes and Noble, and today we saw a few copies at REI. title is: 'Backcountry adventure guide to Colorado's Rawah Wilderness' written by Raymond Ave. ISBN # 0-9741755-1-X, printed by Worzalla, Stevens Point Wisconsin.
I will be in the Rawah this summer. Should you make a trip there for scouting this summer, send a PM, and I will help all I can. I can usually move schedule around with a minimum of 2 weeks notice to accomodate. If I show you where to elk hunt, maybe you could show me where to hunt muskies.
The State of Colorado does not remunerate those who encourage tourism or big game hunting.
Greenmtnboy
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marmotslayer said:
I agree 100 percent with Marmotslayer, If I can't see the truck( which is 100 percent of the time)
I bone out my critters.
Only difference is I use trash compactor bags inside of canvase bags(super heavy duty) so flys can't lay eggs on the boned out meat.
I usally get my meat hung in a cool place(my cellar) by the next day so spoilage won't happen.
An average two and a half year old cow will produce 150 to 200lbs of boned out meat. Thats ribb,neck heart,liver, everything!
My wife and I can pack out said elk in one trip but I do perfer using my mules for obvious reasons.
If you don't want to be so close to the park and the front range then just west of there in the Crag,Meeker area is also a hikers paridise.
:thumbsup:
longcruise
70 Cal.
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
longcruise
70 Cal.
I doubt it!
That hunter is the extreme minority in the field. Even when they do get to the field they don't leave camp or if they do don't last very long.
And, indeed, if that is the reason, then it falls into the same category of prior restraint that I pointed out previoulsy. It's an inconveniance for all just so that regulators can focus their obsession with the behaviour of a very few. In fact, if what you are saying is correct, then by extension of that thought, the reason for a three day wait to use an archery license is to give the slob hunter time to practice with his brand new bow?
:haha: These are regulations that treat the entire hunting public as though they are criminals for the sake of trying to regulate the behaviour of a very few criminals among us.
None of that seems to be relevant to any of my remarks.
Thank You Preacher, Im going to do some major research. As far as muskies go, I'm not much of a muskie man. I live on the Door County Peninsula. The thumb of Wisconsin that sticks out into Lake Michigan. Its well known for its salmon and trout fishing as well as its smallmouth bass fishery. You are welcome at my home any time.
paulvallandigham
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I didn't say that waiting periods work- there is no evidence that they do- for anything. I didn't say I support them. I didn't say requiring every hunter to sit through a Hunter safety course before being able to get a hunting license is the smartest thing to do, either. I don't like it. You should be able to take a proficiency test, at the very least, and get on with it.
Some states now offer the H-S course on Line, but it take longer to actually take the On-line course, and you still have to attend, in person, some shortened course- the total time being much longer than if you just take the 10-hour standard class!
The Government is being run by people who are intent on discouraging hunting. That is one of the reasons that hunting license and permits sales have dropped steadily over the past 10 years. There are just too many rules, too many requirements, and absolutely NO proof that all of this makes hunting safer.
Enforcing Game regulations has becomes a " Revenue Generating Sport", and game officers are actually given quotas to fill by issuing tickets, in some locations. That is wrong. All it engenders is contempt by the public for the law and regulations, and an even greater hatred of Game officers. Being A Game officer is a difficult enough job to do, without everyone you meet wishing you were dead!
Most violations of game regulations are due solely to lack of knowledge, and not some sinister intent. I have been teaching Hunter Safety since 1982, and every class I hold, we hear from hunters who tell us they have been violating some regulation or another that we discuss in class for years, only because they didn't know what was required. In other cases, the regulations are so poorly written that there is NO agreement even among officers as to what constitutes a violation. ( Sometimes they are written so badly that even lawyers can't figure out what conduct the law is suppose to proscribe!) Some of the Game laws don't make sense, either.
I had a field day in Court with one client, getting the first 4 counts filed against him dismissed for errors in allegations of the offense. The State refiled, but managed to screw it up again, so that I convinced the prosecutor that he could not prove the allegations in 3 out of the other 4 counts, and I had a very good defense to the remaining count.( He was not guilty of the allegations in the first 3 counts, as well.)
I have been representing hunters wrongly charged with game code violations now for more than 30 years. I always tell them to request a jury trial. I want to take the decision about whether they have committed an offense away from that local judge that the game officials in the area buddy up to, and from prosecutors who are willing to help out the game officer in exchange for helping him find good places to hunt!
Prosecutors are largely paid by the counties where they work, but by state laws, game code fines go to the State Game departments. Very few prosecutors are willing to draft jury instructions and spend several hours preparing for a jury trial just to make the State a few bucks. The County has to pay for those jurors, and in smaller counties, jury trials are often only available 1-3 times a year! So, instead of my client being a victim of the " Good ol' boy network " in these smaller courts, I prefer to let a jury I help pick decide whether he is guilty or not.
Now, I did mention that I decide if the client has been wrongly charged. I don't represent clients who are obviously cheating the system and got caught. I tell them to pay the standard fine and stop being stupid. In most cases, you can post a bond and forfeit it, to dispose of the case. Its a lot cheaper than hiring me to go to court with you and watch you convicted of an obvious offense, as in " Hunting without a license ", and similar crimes.
We have way too much government when it comes to " Hunting " laws and regulations, largely because government is being taken over by people who do not hunt, didn't grow up in a hunting culture, and have no idea how people can own and shoot and hunt with guns safely without someone with a badge riding herd on them. They come mostly from cities, with college degrees, and they don't have a clue about guns, hunting, or fishing, or anything to do with living in rural areas. They do come armed with all the latest liberal nonsense about how to use POWER, as in Politics.
Their bias is to divert state funds to City needs. They consider rural people "hicks" and rural culture, and all that it encompasses to be abominable. Even in states like Colorado, where hunting is a serious revenue generator, the government is being taken over by largely urban oriented people growing up in the Denver-Boulder areas, who could care less about Hunting. When you ask them when is the last time they drove out into rural areas of the state, other than for Winter Ski trips, they look at you like you are nuts! Why would anyone want to drive out there??? What for?? Hey, they only work for State government! :nono: :youcrazy: :hatsoff:
Some states now offer the H-S course on Line, but it take longer to actually take the On-line course, and you still have to attend, in person, some shortened course- the total time being much longer than if you just take the 10-hour standard class!
The Government is being run by people who are intent on discouraging hunting. That is one of the reasons that hunting license and permits sales have dropped steadily over the past 10 years. There are just too many rules, too many requirements, and absolutely NO proof that all of this makes hunting safer.
Enforcing Game regulations has becomes a " Revenue Generating Sport", and game officers are actually given quotas to fill by issuing tickets, in some locations. That is wrong. All it engenders is contempt by the public for the law and regulations, and an even greater hatred of Game officers. Being A Game officer is a difficult enough job to do, without everyone you meet wishing you were dead!
Most violations of game regulations are due solely to lack of knowledge, and not some sinister intent. I have been teaching Hunter Safety since 1982, and every class I hold, we hear from hunters who tell us they have been violating some regulation or another that we discuss in class for years, only because they didn't know what was required. In other cases, the regulations are so poorly written that there is NO agreement even among officers as to what constitutes a violation. ( Sometimes they are written so badly that even lawyers can't figure out what conduct the law is suppose to proscribe!) Some of the Game laws don't make sense, either.
I had a field day in Court with one client, getting the first 4 counts filed against him dismissed for errors in allegations of the offense. The State refiled, but managed to screw it up again, so that I convinced the prosecutor that he could not prove the allegations in 3 out of the other 4 counts, and I had a very good defense to the remaining count.( He was not guilty of the allegations in the first 3 counts, as well.)
I have been representing hunters wrongly charged with game code violations now for more than 30 years. I always tell them to request a jury trial. I want to take the decision about whether they have committed an offense away from that local judge that the game officials in the area buddy up to, and from prosecutors who are willing to help out the game officer in exchange for helping him find good places to hunt!
Prosecutors are largely paid by the counties where they work, but by state laws, game code fines go to the State Game departments. Very few prosecutors are willing to draft jury instructions and spend several hours preparing for a jury trial just to make the State a few bucks. The County has to pay for those jurors, and in smaller counties, jury trials are often only available 1-3 times a year! So, instead of my client being a victim of the " Good ol' boy network " in these smaller courts, I prefer to let a jury I help pick decide whether he is guilty or not.
Now, I did mention that I decide if the client has been wrongly charged. I don't represent clients who are obviously cheating the system and got caught. I tell them to pay the standard fine and stop being stupid. In most cases, you can post a bond and forfeit it, to dispose of the case. Its a lot cheaper than hiring me to go to court with you and watch you convicted of an obvious offense, as in " Hunting without a license ", and similar crimes.
We have way too much government when it comes to " Hunting " laws and regulations, largely because government is being taken over by people who do not hunt, didn't grow up in a hunting culture, and have no idea how people can own and shoot and hunt with guns safely without someone with a badge riding herd on them. They come mostly from cities, with college degrees, and they don't have a clue about guns, hunting, or fishing, or anything to do with living in rural areas. They do come armed with all the latest liberal nonsense about how to use POWER, as in Politics.
Their bias is to divert state funds to City needs. They consider rural people "hicks" and rural culture, and all that it encompasses to be abominable. Even in states like Colorado, where hunting is a serious revenue generator, the government is being taken over by largely urban oriented people growing up in the Denver-Boulder areas, who could care less about Hunting. When you ask them when is the last time they drove out into rural areas of the state, other than for Winter Ski trips, they look at you like you are nuts! Why would anyone want to drive out there??? What for?? Hey, they only work for State government! :nono: :youcrazy: :hatsoff:
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