Colorado's muzzleloader projectile rule?

Are polymer tip conicals and copper plated powerbelt Bullets under two caliber long allowed if the nonmetallic part of the projectile goes over the legal length?

Second question: are Omegas and Winchester apex allowed under the open hammer rule?

 

[musketman]

From the Winchester site:

Q. What is the best projectile for my Winchester muzzleloader?

A: Without question, the best performing projectiles we have ever tested are the PowerBelt Bullets. PowerBelts are a bullet/sabot hybrid that feature a patented snap-on plastic base. This base or "belt" creates a perfect gas seal, providing consistent pressures and unsurpassed accuracy. But unlike sabots, PowerBelt Bullets are full caliber sized, easy to load, and do not require cleaning after every shot. The PowerBelt is not a pistol bullet modified for use in a muzzleloader---they are muzzleloading bullets designed for muzzleloaders. In our tests the performance has been so superior, we believe the PowerBelt Bullets will soon make sabots obsolete. PowerBelt Bullets are available in either copper-clad or pure lead, a variety of grain weights and calibers, and are legal in almost every State, including Colorado and Pennsylvania.

I emailed the Colorado D.O.W. in reguards to your second question, I'll post the answer when I get it...

Also read these:
http://www.prbullet.com/col.htm
http://www.prbullet.com/colcon.htm

 

I might also add here, that a full calibre projectile is much more efficient a killer, than sub-cal bullets. Having a stable projectile of .50 or .54 cal is much better than the longer/for/calibre heacy pistol bullets.
: As I see the situation, most of the inlines or fast twist guns have twists right down to 28", but that's about it. In .50 cal. this will stabilize bullets to about 600gr. In .54, probably 700gr. so standard bullets in 400 to 500 gr. will work perfectly. The .44 and .45 pistols bullets weighing 300gr. and just over, require 18 to 24" twists for stability after contacting flesh. Because they do seem to work fairly well, lots of people use them, however they do diminish the power of these large calibre rifles from what they are capable of. The 50-90 was a preferred rifle for big game like buffalo and elk because it was a faster killer of those animals. If you have a .50, then it's greater power really should be taken advantage of. The smaller .40 and .45 calibre buffalo rifles were only superior past around 400 or 500yds., the accuracy limit of the .50 cal. rifles of the day. This is well past the range anyone should be shooting at live animals today.
: I have always leaned toward a soft lead projectile rather than some 'fancy' highly advertized modern projetile because the lead bullets work in all rifles.
: As I understand the situation, the front part of this belted bullet doesn't engrave the riflng, or upset- that is the job of the plastic base. If your bore size isn't perfect for this fancy bullet to hold it in perfect alignment with the bore's axis, it will be either too tight or too loose, and either will cause problems. At least, if they do work, they are a step in the right direction, being bore size. I suspect without lube, or a place for it, they may be difficult to load after a couple shots- if, the bullet is a tight fit to the bore, and it should be for adequate accuracy.
Daryl

 

[Deadeye]

Daryl's right, a big pure lead bullet with a flat nose is as good as you'll get. Here is a 500 gr. .50 cal. unfired and 8 recovered from soft dirt at 230 yds. 90 grs, 2F at 1200 fps and doing about 900 on impact. We've killed many deer and elk with them and always had complete penetration,
even end to end. These bullets are very accurate.

 

Isn't it GREAT, the way pure lead moves around like bubblegum, but doesn't break up- that's what gives it it's penetration and size is what helps out with the killing, even though at .5 or .54, they really don't have to expand to kill game well.- it's just icing on the cake.
: The really neat thing, is they expand on game about like these did in the dirt. This gives a large permanent wound channel, without the destroyed meat from bullets that blow up. No wonder they worked so well on buffalo & elk - and still do.
: Nice picture, Deadeye.
Daryl

 

[Deadeye]

I cast these and tell everyone that uses them to try to recover one for me but so far haven't found one. I believe they expand like this on game but would like to see for sure. I shot a bull Elk, facing me from about 75 yds.
center of the chest and it exited thru the hind quarter. He dropped in his tracks, never even twitched. Same on several deer, they're killers.

 

These are the bullets I was talking about.

 

Both Bullets above are 50 caliber the one on the left is 450 gr. that conical is also offered in 400 gr. the powerbelt on the right is a 405 gr. Aero tip.

 

What is the dia. of those bullets? I might add, that the nurling on the left hand bullet appears it won't hold enough lube for a second shot, unless, perhaps pyrodex or someother replacement powder is used.
: Good looking bullets, for target shooting. I personally prefer a flat or broad round nose for hunting. The difference is quite substancial for the animal being hit. As well, over normal hunting ranges, there is no difference that can be seen or held for, between a flat nose and pointy bullet, so there is no advantage for having a pointed projectile for hunting.
Daryl

 

Here's a link to the bullet on the left all the information I have on it is right here.Conical on the left

As for the powerbelt bullet on the right here is the loading data below.

 

[Deadeye]

Some more info on the bullets I mentioned earlier, Diameter is .499 and 501 at the front band. I lube them with alox and we've found we can fire about 12 to 15 ( 90 grs. 2F)
before the bore gets fouled enough to make it hard to load.
Without a coned muzzle they slip right in to the front band
I use a short starter from there but
most shooters can push them in past the front band with their thumb.

 

Have you tried the Lyman BP bullet lube? I was surprised when you said you used alox as it certainly doesn't work in ctg. guns with BP as the alox doesn't soften fouling. We've found, that a BP lube is much better, being the Lyman BP lube, Bore Butter or the SPL, all lubes designed for BP shooting. The ctg. funs will shoot all day without having to swab the bore, as will a ML when the proper lube is found. Shooting paper patched bullets has taught us which lubes actually soften the powder fouling, which is necessary for uninterupted accuracy & being able to push the subsequent ctg.s into the chamber. With lubes that aren't designed for BP, like Alox and the other smokeless lubes, accuracy is a downhill fight until the bore is crusted up. The above BP lubes actually combine with the fouling to keep it soft so it doesn't effect accuracy. These lubes are all used in a lube sizer, but they also can also be used for hand lubing or dipping the bullets in melted lube(low heat only).
: I noticed that Track also says to use alox lubes with BP, but their thinking is all wrong - that modern-age lube doesn't combine with the BP. To see what works, just read some of Ken Waters books on BP ctg. shooting. One of his lubes, actually used by Sharps in the '70's was 60% Beeswax 40% tallow & that one is a great lubricant, too. The Ctg. guns are so finicky, that if the lube isn't a good one, they scatter shots all over the place, lead and foul to the point you can't load the next rounds. If the lube actually works, you can remove the fouling with one dry patch pushed through the bore. With Alox lubes, the fouling is dry and crusty and the patch can't push it out. It's gotta be soft and somewhat moist & that's what the BP specific lubes bo.
Daryl