Committee of Safety Flintlock Musket? Please help...

[RevolutionaryWar]

Hello,

I am quite new to the world of antique firearms but have always wanted a Committee of Safety musket. I came across this one and I'd greatly appreciate any information you may be able to provide about it. The description is as follows:
Revolutionary War “Committee of Safety” .70 Cal. Approx. Flintlock Musket, 39 3/8” British Proof marked bbl., U.S. Eagle marked lock, Full Stock, Walnut appears to be a “W” stamped on left side of stock – functions

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Sorry to say, that is NOT a Committee of Safety musket by any means. That is a India Pattern, 3rd Model Brown Bess, which puts it past the American War of Independence, and likely post 1800. The eagle marked lock may mean it was reworked after being captured by the US during the War of 1812.

Committee of Safety muskets were more often a conglomeration of parts, often used, to create a musket in a short period of time due to high demand. Sometimes the parts were locally made, and would be done so in the quickest manner, and often lower expense. So you see what looks like a Brown Bess but the lock plate is flat, not rounded, or you find an octagon to round barrel on a musket that should have a full round barrel. They tend to be knock-offs of the Brown Bess, but not always...


Here's a CoS "Bess" with a Germanic Lock

Here is a CoS musket with Dublin Castle marked lock, but is flat, and isn't on a Bess but on a French style banded musket

LD

 

[Conquerordie]

Agreed with above, if you purchased it as a COS musket, you better get your money back. Sorry.

 

[FlinterNick]

Sorry to say, that is NOT a Committee of Safety musket by any means. That is a India Pattern, 3rd Model Brown Bess, which puts it past the American War of Independence, and likely post 1800. The eagle marked lock may mean it was reworked after being captured by the US during the War of 1812.

Committee of Safety muskets were more often a conglomeration of parts, often used, to create a musket in a short period of time due to high demand. Sometimes the parts were locally made, and would be done so in the quickest manner, and often lower expense. So you see what looks like a Brown Bess but the lock plate is flat, not rounded, or you find an octagon to round barrel on a musket that should have a full round barrel. They tend to be knock-offs of the Brown Bess, but not always...


Here's a CoS "Bess" with a Germanic Lock

View attachment 295676


Here is a CoS musket with Dublin Castle marked lock, but is flat, and isn't on a Bess but on a French style banded musket


View attachment 295679

LD

Agree with Dave, third model bess.

I’ve viewed many US surcharged committiee of safety muskets.

Most are not specifically a certain pattern but as Dave said a compilation of parts that were available.

Most are designed to emulate that of the Brown Bess, however there are many also designed with barrel bands from French, and Dutch Muskets.

The best way in my opinion to do a COS musket is too keep it neutral of any markings, other than a US surcharge on the side Lock panel or butt plate tang. Meaning, taking a miroku or pedersoli or Indian made musket and removing the markings.

Below is a Dutch lock found on English contract muskets.

Note it has no markings on the plate.

I stamped this Indian 1728 lock with a US surcharge stamp.

 

[Loyer]

What book does the above IMG-1857.jpeg image come from ?

 

[FlinterNick]

What book does the above IMG-1857.jpeg image come from ?

Georgie Neuman’s battle weapons of the american revolution

 

[Loyer]

Thank you. I will see if I can find that in Canada

 

[oldsarge79]

Thank you. I will see if I can find that in Canada

I put my copy on sale on British Militaria Forums a couple of months ago, and at a good price, but no takers. So, I put it on ebay and sold it there. If only you had known at the time.....

 

[RevolutionaryWar]

Sorry to say, that is NOT a Committee of Safety musket by any means. That is a India Pattern, 3rd Model Brown Bess, which puts it past the American War of Independence, and likely post 1800. The eagle marked lock may mean it was reworked after being captured by the US during the War of 1812.

Committee of Safety muskets were more often a conglomeration of parts, often used, to create a musket in a short period of time due to high demand. Sometimes the parts were locally made, and would be done so in the quickest manner, and often lower expense. So you see what looks like a Brown Bess but the lock plate is flat, not rounded, or you find an octagon to round barrel on a musket that should have a full round barrel. They tend to be knock-offs of the Brown Bess, but not always...


Here's a CoS "Bess" with a Germanic Lock

View attachment 295676


Here is a CoS musket with Dublin Castle marked lock, but is flat, and isn't on a Bess but on a French style banded musket


View attachment 295679

LD

Thank you so much for your reply and all the valuable information. Even with my very limited knowledge I had serious doubts that this was a Cos. The proof mark looks like Birmingham post 1813 and I just couldn’t place the eagle in the correct time period either.

The price seemed waaaay too low for what it claimed to be. I need to buy a few books and do some serious research before I make a purchase. Thanks again.

 

[RevolutionaryWar]

Agreed with above, if you purchased it as a COS musket, you better get your money back. Sorry.

Thank you for your reply. Luckily I found this forum and posted before I purchased it. This “COS” example was priced pretty low so I should’ve known better. I’ve got some serious research to do (and will definitely be posting on this forum) before moving forward with a purchase in the future. Thanks again.

 

[RevolutionaryWar]

Agree with Dave, third model bess.

I’ve viewed many US surcharged committiee of safety muskets.

Most are not specifically a certain pattern but as Dave said a compilation of parts that were available.

Most are designed to emulate that of the Brown Bess, however there are many also designed with barrel bands from French, and Dutch Muskets.

The best way in my opinion to do a COS musket is too keep it neutral of any markings, other than a US surcharge on the side Lock panel or butt plate tang. Meaning, taking a miroku or pedersoli or Indian made musket and removing the markings.

Below is a Dutch lock found on English contract muskets.

Note it has no markings on the plate.

I stamped this Indian 1728 lock with a US surcharge stamp.

Thank you for your reply. Again, with my very limited knowledge, what photos I could find of a Brown Bess, all the parts did seem British to me. Should've been a dead giveaway. I really don’t know what I’m looking at yet so i just had my suspicions and gut to go with. Luckily I found this forum and saved myself some frustration and money.

Building/altering one of these guys is way out of my league but your example is beautiful. Thanks again.

 

[mushka]

Not being familiar with the term, what does committee of safety actually mean as far as guns go?

 

[oldsarge79]

Not being familiar with the term, what does committee of safety actually mean as far as guns go?

A committee of Safety musket is one originally authorized to be manufactured by state and local Committees of Safety prior to and during the American Revolution. Some were made by local gunsmiths, some by state sanctioned armories, and some were a mixture of existing parts. They take many shapes, sizes and calibers and can be a challenge at times to identify. Many were unmarked or little marked to avoid prosecution of the gun maker should the British win the war.

 

[Tumbledown]

Here are a couple of links regarding Committee of Safety muskets:

American Made Muskets in the Revolutionary War

Repro of a CoS Musket

 

[Clark Badgett]

I know this is a late reply. You could possibly have one of the 9000+ India pattern type 1 English muskets that were purchased from England at the end of the 18th and beginning of the 19th centuries. They were primarily given to the newly established Navy department for use aboard ships and by Marine contingents. Being a former Marine, I would rather have one of these than a questionable COS musket, most of which aren’t.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Not being familiar with the term, what does committee of safety actually mean as far as guns go?

..., some by state sanctioned armories, and some were a mixture of existing parts. They take many shapes, sizes and calibers and can be a challenge at times to identify. Many were unmarked or little marked to avoid prosecution of the gun maker should the British win the war.

For example, Maryland had a couple locations where they made muskets for Maryland's Committee of Safety, because there were a great many 1st Model Bess and quite possibly English Dog-Lock muskets already in the Annapolis armory but needing repair. Many having broken locks, some needing barrels, and perhaps both.

A very commonly seen version was a Bess with a wooden rammer, but with a flat faced lock, but would also take a bayonet. This would mean that the lock was probably a replacement to an infantry musket (bayonet) and that the musket was not a sea service weapon.

LD

 

[LuckyDucky]

Hello,
Were there ever any shooting replica models made of the (a) CoS flintlock pistol is the caliber of .66? Would a knock-off been in .66 cal.?
I have one of something? Found it in an antique store with a bag of .648 round ball.
Not knowing, have shot it successfully. .648 round ball with lubed .010 patch on a 30-33gr. 2fg charge. Fire nicely and cleans up nicely.
An only mark on the top of the barrel (9") with metal, flat head ram rod, is the UH series number between 1500 - 2000.
Brass fixtures with handle butt cap; the lock plate is flat. No proof marks of any kind. Heavy for its size.
I'm aware of the rarity of early CoS flintlock pistols. Will work on some photographs for the forum here.
Thank you. LD

 

[LuckyDucky]

Smooth bore.
Patina is great.