comparable ballistics?

[Homesteader]

I've been reading on another site about the fine differences between the .38, the .380, and the 9 mm pistol round. It just got me to wondering about our old cap & ball loads.

Any idea how a .44 or .36 percussion revolver load compares to modern pistol loads? The intense discussion I read on other sites about how a "little" 9 mm or under can barely be used for self defense makes me wonder how on earth so many men killed each other back before centerfire ammo.

Just curious if anyone has done any actual comparisons... Always love to learn.

 

[Don]

The 44 cap and ball loads with ball compare ballistically with the .38 special +P. With a heavy conical they compare to the 44 Webley and start to approach the .44 special. The .36 can compare to the 32 S&W long with a light ball load to the 380 with a full load of powder and ball. The 36 remington can hold more powder and can get ballistics on par with the 9mm Mak loaded with ball. With a conical it can get ballistics similar to the 38 S&W short and with a 100 grain wad cutter it will do as well as the 32 H&R mag. I base this on my own work with my revolvers and chronograph. I used Pyrodex P and 777 3f.

Don

 

[Raider2000]

These are ballistics that my Pietta 1858 NMA with a 5.5" barrel is capable of.

Bullet = .457 143 grain Cast Round Ball .065 BC.
Powder = Goex FFFg black powder.
Primer = Remington #11
5-1/2” Barrel Average Ballistics.
30gr. Volume = 770 fps. 188 ft. Lbs.

Bullet = .456 220 grain Cast Lee conical bullet .138 BC.
Powder = Goex FFFg black powder.
Primer = Remington #11
5-1/2” Barrel Average Ballistics.
30gr. Volume = 702 fps. 240 ft. lbs.

By the numbers it doesn't look to be that impressive but conciddering that the standard original .38 special load which for many years was the comparrison to the .44 caliber C&B revolvers power.

.38 Spec. 158gr. LRN.
755 fps. 200 ft. lbs.

The .457 caliber ball from my little '58 has a little less punch than the .357 bullet but it is a larger diameter projectile which will cause a slightly larger wound chanel.

I would say by what my ballistics show that a .44 caliber C&B revolver is comparable to what Homesteader stated.

 

[Don]

The shorter barrel of your Remington decreases your velocity thus energy considerably. My numbers were based on the standard 7.5 or 8 inch barrels. Even so, wouldn't want to be on the recieving end of a sheriff style cap and ball revolver.

Don

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

It is widely thought that the .454 ball fired from a Walker (50-55 grains of FFFg) is roughly equivilent to a .38 spl+P or +P+. A .357 Magnum was the first round thought to be more powerful than the Walker.

When analyzing effective stopping power, remember that the "antique lead ball" would mushroom upon impact due to it's softness, especially if it hit bone, causing a wider than caliber-size wound channel. This same style lead ball, when fired out of a rifle (PRB'S), effects game such as deer in the same way, at ranges past 75 yards. This documentation exists in various threads right here on this Forum. At closer ranges (hand gun distances) the effect is the same.

Shot placement is still the key to success, whether it's on Perps or game :wink:

A puny .36 in the heart is still a shot to the heart. So's a .380 for that matter :hmm:

Dave

 

[jaxenro]

Didn't Hickock kill a man at 75 yards with a .36 Colt with one shot through the heart? Like everything location, location, location.

 

[buttonbuck]

I read here about people shooting and humanely harvesting ferrel hogs with ruger old army pistols in 45 cal with a standard cylinder load here in Illinois I hope to harvest a white tail doe with a plains pistol with a 535 rb and 45 grains of 3f. one site claimed that a maxi ball with a full charge out of this is "the most powerful handgun int the world?" I tried a 380 REAL out of this gun with 30 grains it felt like I shot something bigger than a 44 mag. Never again I like my kit pistol's stock uncracked. If want something more stout I will buy an old TC Scout.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Until you've shot a S&W .500 Magnum with the heavy slug it can come with (over 325 grains, if memory serves me correct) you haven't felt recoil in a hand gun :shocked2: . My .44 Mag feels like wimpy wadcutter .38 spl reloads next to the big .500 :wink: . It makes grown men flinch! Not something that you'd want to shoot a box of bullets of at one range session.

Dave

 

[Lonegun1894]

i remember reading in one of Elmer Keiths books that many of the War for Southern Independence veterans much prefferred and had more faith in the C&B revolvers than modern handguns. It said they believed the .36 RB was much superior to the .38 Special, and the .44 RB was also much better than the .44 Special. This was coming from men who had staked their lives on both and made their preference known. As was mentioned above, the RB is a very effective projectile--and often more effectve than modern bullets. You just have to place it where it needs to go. Most of us here have hunted with both PRB and modern firearms. Think back on your own experience and make your own comparisons. I will stay with PRBs for most of my hunting.

 

[Zonie]

smokin .50:
Yup. I've never shot a S&W .500 but I was at an indoor range when one was touched off.
The whole place including the floor shook.

That said, IMO that gun is less useful than teats on a boar.
Any gun, especially a handgun that makes the shooter flinch results in misses.

A nice controllable gun like a .36 or .44 C&B gun makes it easy to hit the target multiple times.

I think one good hit is worth 6 loud misses. :hmm:

 

[Raider2000]

smokin .50:
Yup. I've never shot a S&W .500 but I was at an indoor range when one was touched off.
The whole place including the floor shook.

That said, IMO that gun is less useful than teats on a boar.
Any gun, especially a handgun that makes the shooter flinch results in misses.

A nice controllable gun like a .36 or .44 C&B gun makes it easy to hit the target multiple times.

I think one good hit is worth 6 loud misses. :hmm:

My thoughts exactly, I've only seen one of those shot at the range here & like my bud with his .45-70 BFH Revolver, it has a coolness factor but to me it's too much of a pistol for anything other than 4th of July celebrations because unless you're standin next to the target neither of the guys hit anything but the Berm.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

:thumbsup: I'm with you! One cylinder's worth of the heavy loading taught me enough to realize that it has the "WOW" factor, but I'm glad that I didn't buy the damned thing! A fellow let me try his at the outdoor range...6 shots was enough :surrender: . Makes shooting my Walker with 50 grains of FFFg seem like a light target load :shocked2:

That was more than a year ago, BEFORE ammo jumped up in price! Back then a 20 round box went for about $60.00 (3 bucks a round!). Wouldn't even hazzard a guess as to how much$$ today.

Dave

 

[Raider2000]

:thumbsup: I'm with you! One cylinder's worth of the heavy loading taught me enough to realize that it has the "WOW" factor, but I'm glad that I didn't buy the damned thing! A fellow let me try his at the outdoor range...6 shots was enough :surrender: . Makes shooting my Walker with 50 grains of FFFg seem like a light target load :shocked2:

That was more than a year ago, BEFORE ammo jumped up in price! Back then a 20 round box went for about $60.00 (3 bucks a round!). Wouldn't even hazzard a guess as to how much$$ today.

Dave

:thumbsup: Know what ya mean, ever since my bud bought the BFH I told him that he needs to get into reloading if he's going to shoot that thing with any proficiency, so far he hasn't done that.

Last 20 round box of 45-70 ammo I bought for him was $34.00 I'm sure it has gone up since last year.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I have a '58 Rem 'Buffalo' model that I usually load 32gr 3F, a felt overpowder wad and 220gr Lee mold slug in.
a buddy has a 4" barrel Ruger .357 Mag, once we compared loads by shooting into a jack pine sapling at about 20'. the .44 slug blew through takeing a chunk out the back side.
the 125gr semi-jacket HP .357 Mag did not exit.
I'll avoid being on the business end of any one of 'em.