Competetion Shooting

[BJC]

I am wanting to get into competition shooting at mountain man rendezvous and other BP shoots.

I do not yet have a rifle but I may borrow my sons T/C .36 cal Seneca or his Pedersoli Traditional Hawken in .54 cal but eventually I need my own.

I am looking at the Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken in Maple wood, or

the Jim Bridger / Kit Carson kit gun at Track of the Wolf, or

the Layman Great Plains Rifle.

I want curly maple.

My first few questions.

If I get the Pedersoli can I get after market barrels for it if mine gets messed up?

I hear that the Layman lock has a coil spring in it. Can I fit the coil spring lock on the Pedersoli?

Of these that I mentioned which do you feel is best and most history correct?

Am I spending too much money and should I just find an old T/C at a pawn shop and go from there?

If competition shooting really that fun or is it just a waste of time and money?

Thanks.

 

[M. De Land]

Can you build a rifle for yourself?
Do you want flint or percussion?
If percussion and you can build it yourself I would look at a under hammer gun with a Green Mountain barrel.
They are simple and very easy to get good accuracy from.

 

[Artificer]

That's a lot of questions for one post. :grin:

A coil spring lock is not history correct until the late 20th century and certainly not for the 19th century.

"Is competition shooting really that fun or is it just a waste of time and money?"

This all depends on your attitude about it and the matches/folks you shoot with. I shot quite a few Spring and Fall shoots at Friendship in the 1970's and never even placed, but I had fun doing it. (I won't mention some of the things we used to do during Primitive Matches back then, as many would consider them at least rude, if not downright unsafe.) I won some local matches and had fun at them even when I lost.

My mindset was that I was always competing first and foremost against myself and to improve my shooting ability. The wins or places were like sprinkles on the icing of a cake.

Gus

 

[Khufu]

is competitive shooting worth it? depends on what you want to get out of it, you will meet a lot of really good guys and gals, most willing to help you, if you are wanting to be any near the front of the pack, then you will need experience, hard work and patience, and, I can not stress this enough, top quality components assembled by someone who knows how. there will be folks who can shoot with match Rice barrels or Getz, or Colerain, probably some old timers with a Sharon or Green River and a factory, IE Pedersoli, Thompson Center, Lyman to name a few, will NOT be able to compete with the top gear and experienced shooters. I have shot competitively, and guys that have beaten me in the past had the very best equipment available. I learned that lesson well, even though it is satisfying to beat aomeine shooting the best with a CVA kit gun, its not at the front of the pack. to show up shoot and get advice from the top shooters a T/C will do. these guys cut cards edgewise and have 5 shot groups not much larger than a single ball hole. manage your expectations.

 

[BigAl52]

Ive shot competition in pistol muzzleloader and black Powder Cart. I've ended up seeing the same result with all of it. There are good people that are fun to be around and then there are the other people who just seem to put the rotten apple in the basket. Those people on the rotten side always put a damper on it for me. Maybe it was just me don't know. But I have just as much fun by myself or with a friend or family member. Then choice of the gun is easy. Buy what you want and shoot it. Then buy another one and shoot it to. Al

 

[Boomerang]

I purchased a Lyman GPR in 54 cal a couple months ago and it is very accurate and looks the part of a Hawken style gun. I think it might be the best bang for your buck on a production rifle.

 

[jethro224]

I am looking at the Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken in Maple wood, or

the Jim Bridger / Kit Carson kit gun at Track of the Wolf, or

the Layman Great Plains Rifle.

I want curly maple.

The Lyman is a great gun at a reasonable price but doesn't come in curly maple so it's out.

The Pedersoli is a real nice rifle and is available in curly maple. It'll cost you a bit more.

If you can build it or hire the job out, the kit rifle could turn out even better but will cost even more and take longer.

If I get the Pedersoli can I get after market barrels for it if mine gets messed up?

As long as you clean it after you shoot it there's a pretty slim chance you'll mess up a barrel. Don't use it for a hammer or prybar...

I hear that the Layman lock has a coil spring in it. Can I fit the coil spring lock on the Pedersoli?

The Lyman lock does use a coil spring.
Probably not, or at least not easily. Why on earth would you want to?

Of these that I mentioned which do you feel is best and most history correct?

Depends on who builds the TOW kit rifle. :wink:

Am I spending too much money and should I just find an old T/C at a pawn shop and go from there?

Not unless your wife finds out.
An old T/C would get you shootin' and that ain't a bad thing. Beats not shootin' anyway.

Is competition shooting really that fun or is it just a waste of time and money?

If you're not having fun shooting then you're not doing it right.
Shooting competitions are always fun for me. I win plenty enough but I don't get all worked up if I don't. You'll have good days and bad days as far as scores go. Just enjoy the shoot either way.
Some of my favorite people are the friends I've met thru muzzleloading competitions. :hatsoff:

 

[Donny]

Methinks you should buy a pawn shop T/C and go shooting.
It will take time to figure exactly what gun you like, after seeing and handling other folks guns at shoots.
I have seen guys win with T/C and CVA rifles. It is often not the gun but the guy pulling the trigger that wins.
At the pawn shop or wherever use a good bore light, many people ruin the bbl and sell it.

 

[Otter]

I do not yet have a rifle but I may borrow my sons T/C .36 cal Seneca or his Pedersoli Traditional Hawken in .54 cal but eventually I need my own.
Given those 2 choices - grab the .54.

I am looking at the Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken in Maple wood, or the Jim Bridger / Kit Carson kit gun at Track of the Wolf, or the Layman Great Plains Rifle.
I have 2 custom MLs, 2 Lyman GPRs and several other MLs, the Lyman .54 GPR is the one I shoot more than any other.

I want curly maple.
That will cost ya and most likely limit you to a custom built muzzleloader.

My first few questions.

If I get the Pedersoli can I get after market barrels for it if mine gets messed up?
Short answer, yes, bur will be a fair bit of work.

I hear that the Layman lock has a coil spring in it. Can I fit the coil spring lock on the Pedersoli?
As someone else asked . . . why?

Of these that I mentioned which do you feel is best and most history correct?
Bridger or Carson kit, IF assembled by the right builder.

Am I spending too much money and should I just find an old T/C at a pawn shop and go from there?
I'd recommend the Lyman GPR in .54 OR .50. You'd get a good, functional, accurate rifle for a decent price. Might even be able to find a used one for a better price.

If competition shooting really that fun or is it just a waste of time and money?
I have shot at Rendezvous competitions for over 25 years. Won some, placed 2nd or 3rd in many, and had fun at all of them. Depends on why you want to shoot in the first place. As someone else already said - it ain't the rifle, it's the nut behind the butt . . .

Have fun and keep yer powder dry.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Considering your questions, it seems you could have a nice custom rifle built for the same amount of money you might spend on the factory rifles and additional parts.

If competition shooting really that fun or is it just a waste of time and money?

Competition shooting is fun and a way to improve your shooting and, no little thing, you circle of friends with like interests. Competition is an inate thing with humans. I'll betcha the earliest humans had rock throwing and spear chucking contests. In Europe and American records shot competition shooting going way back. Try it, you might like it.

 

[FishDFly]

Lots of questions, I will attempt to answer some, you did not specify what type of competition.

If you are wanting an offhand rifle, you will need to be able to have the upper body strength, the Pedersoli is very heavy.

Curly maple is nice, but it does not win matches.

How is a barrel going to get messed up if it is properly cleaned and taken care of?

Historically correct, are you wanting historically correct or wanting to win matches?

If you find an original T/C, you are not going to win matches against folks who are better equipped than you. You might find a used T/C and see if you like competition.

There have been more matches won with T/C rifles that have been fitted with GM barrels

Caliber, most line shooters use a .40 or .45, depending on where they shoot and the wind, with a leaning to the .45.

“If competition shooting really that fun or is it just a waste of time and money?--- My mentor told me years ago, when you go to a match you are only shooting against yourself and no one else. You tell me, I have shoot in many matches and will continue to do so.

 

[biliff]

I am wanting to get into competition shooting at mountain man rendezvous and other BP shoots.

A rondy is a different animal than a bullseye shoot. A rifle for one might not be the best(or even allowed) for the other. You probably should define what you want to do a little better before making any decisions.

 

[FishDFly]

Nice summation.

 

[Don Steele]

Welcome..!! :thumbsup:
You've come to a great place to begin the journey.
With respect...I'm going to attempt to provide a short response to your legitimate, many and varied inquiries.
"I am wanting to get into competition shooting at mountain man rendezvous and other BP shoots.

I do not yet have a rifle but I may borrow my sons T/C .36 cal Seneca or his Pedersoli Traditional Hawken in .54 cal but eventually I need my own."

Stop right there.
Step one: Borrow the .54 and shoot it enough to KNOW this is something you want to do, at some level.
Step two: Find a good deal on a lightly used, not abused manufactured caplock rifle. T/C, Lyman, etc. Good deals pop up from time to time..just be patient. Don't worry about buying a lot of custom stuff...just get your own rifle, learn to shoot it to the best of your ability...and MOST importantly...ENJOY. If you buy it "right"...and later decide this whole thing ain't for you...it will not have cost you too much to own it.
During this time..you'll have a chance to learn what the winners shoot, how they shoot, and what it takes..(besides the best equipment)to consistently turn in competitive scores. At the same time...you'll be able to figure out if this is REALLY something you want to invest more serious money in. Along the way...you may be surprised what you learn...and your specific discipline choice may evolve.

It's been my experience that even the most basic mass produced rifles on the market, with all variables optimized..(patch, lube,ball,sights...etc) will EASILY outshoot 90% of everyone competing. Should you honestly find that your equipment is holding you back, THEN go out on the market, find a custom builder..and get the rifle that will allow you to record better scores.

Is it FUN....?????
You are the only one who can answer that...and you can't do it "from the outside".
Good Luck, and enjoy the ride..!!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Mr Steele, Don, and Artificer (Gus) all make excellent points.

Reiteration...Big difference between blanket shoots and other "rondezvous" shooting contests, and folks who participate in stuff that can lead to NMLRA national shoots in Friendship, IN.

You need to shoot. You need to learn whatever rifle you are going to use, as they all have quirks. As has been mentioned most factory rifles will shoot from a mechanical rest better than their owner can shoot them from a bench, or in a contest.

So the idea of finding a well cared for, used rifle, and getting good with that is very sound, as you will learn what you like, see other, different styles of rifles with different features (you should try some other rifles whenever their owners will let you.) This also means you haven't broken the bank, and you may find that used rifle is just dandy, no need to look further.

LD

 

[Tom Compton]

Considering your questions, it seems you could have a nice custom rifle built for the same amount of money you might spend on the factory rifles and additional parts.

If competition shooting really that fun or is it just a waste of time and money?

Competition shooting is fun and a way to improve your shooting and, no little thing, you circle of friends with like interests. Competition is an inate thing with humans. I'll betcha the earliest humans had rock throwing and spear chucking contests. In Europe and American records shot competition shooting going way back. Try it, you might like it.

I cannot remember NOT shooting competitively. Even by my self I am competing with myself. Hunting I try for the best shot placement competing against myself. Two or more of us out plinking w .22s at sweet gum balls, empty shotgun hulls or whatever turns into a state championship. Pellet gun in my shop shooting thumb nail spots- I'm trying to get 5 touching at 30'. Hell I even compete with myself when dry firing.

Anyone who says they aren't competitive shooters must be shooting blanks. So why bother working up loads?
TC

 

[Black Jack]

Welcome..!! :thumbsup:
You've come to a great place to begin the journey.
With respect...I'm going to attempt to provide a short response to your legitimate, many and varied inquiries.
"I am wanting to get into competition shooting at mountain man rendezvous and other BP shoots.

I do not yet have a rifle but I may borrow my sons T/C .36 cal Seneca or his Pedersoli Traditional Hawken in .54 cal but eventually I need my own."

Stop right there.
Step one: Borrow the .54 and shoot it enough to KNOW this is something you want to do, at some level.
Step two: Find a good deal on a lightly used, not abused manufactured caplock rifle. T/C, Lyman, etc. Good deals pop up from time to time..just be patient. Don't worry about buying a lot of custom stuff...just get your own rifle, learn to shoot it to the best of your ability...and MOST importantly...ENJOY. If you buy it "right"...and later decide this whole thing ain't for you...it will not have cost you too much to own it.
During this time..you'll have a chance to learn what the winners shoot, how they shoot, and what it takes..(besides the best equipment)to consistently turn in competitive scores. At the same time...you'll be able to figure out if this is REALLY something you want to invest more serious money in. Along the way...you may be surprised what you learn...and your specific discipline choice may evolve.

It's been my experience that even the most basic mass produced rifles on the market, with all variables optimized..(patch, lube,ball,sights...etc) will EASILY outshoot 90% of everyone competing. Should you honestly find that your equipment is holding you back, THEN go out on the market, find a custom builder..and get the rifle that will allow you to record better scores.

Is it FUN....?????
You are the only one who can answer that...and you can't do it "from the outside".
Good Luck, and enjoy the ride..!!

What he said. Mr. Steele offers sage advice. You should get some hand-on experience on a good but moderately priced rifle before you make any expensive decisions. After while, with some club shoots and rondys under your belt, you will know if you want to upgrade your equipment. And the type of rifle you want to invest in. For starters, my personal inclination would be to get a Lyman Great Plains rifle as a starter gun. They have a more traditional design than many others and are very good shooters. Many of the Pedersoli rifles fit this bill also at a slightly higher price. If you choose a used gun, be aware that the condition of the bore is of utmost importance. Good luck and have fun!

 

[necchi]

Sage advice form Mr Steele and Mr. Black Jack.
Calm down a bit and re-think why you want to do this stuff then start from the beginning.
I won my first Rendezvous match with $75 split stock Jukar,, I out shot the others in the match,, not the rifle.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Is it a waste of time? If you are thinking about making a profit it will be waste of time. If you are looking for some friendly competition and a good time it it is well worth it. You will never find a friendlier group of people than at a rendezvous. We are always willing to help one another, even if we are in "competition with each other. :idunno:

 

[MC One Shot]

We are always willing to help one another, even if we are in "competition with each other. :idunno:

Very true....One of the most appealing virtues of the sport....