Condition of shooting patches

[Kai Benedict]

I been shooting for awhile, although I’ve question the condition the appearance of the patch. It doesn’t look burnt at all and I’m wondering what a patch should look like. Mint is white and a large hole in the center. Here’s my info if it helps . 50 cal flinter .490 round ball , 60 grains FFG and a .012 cotton patch. Lubed with mink oil. Gun built by me in 2014. Have only about 150 shots. Any help would be awesome.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Any chance of a photo?

 

[Kai Benedict]

I’m not sure how to add pictures. Sorry

 

[biliff]

Large whole in the center sounds like a sharp muzzle cutting the patch during loading. Pictures would help.

 

[Boomerang]

The color doesn't matter so much, but you don't want any holes in them. A hole in the patch is a blown patch and will adversely affect accuracy.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well if he has nothing burned, and a "large hole" it sounds like he might mean the dark marks from an O on the cloth patch..., no?

Kai,
These are pre-lubed patches that are pretty good:



Here's a patch where the lands have cut the patch. This is bad:


LD

 

[Carbon 6]

Sharp lands can cause tearing but so can excessive loading force/ too tight of a patch ball combination.

Other culprits include;
Wrong or incorrect lube,
barrel pitting/ rust.
synthetic material.
thin patching or loose weave.
too much powder.

 

[hanshi]

You need to use a thicker patching material, for one thing. Cutting of the patch will usually cease if you smooth the muzzle crown down into the lands about 1/16". This allows thicker patches to be used which often allows the gun to be fired an entire afternoon without swabbing the bore. These are the thinnest patches I use in rifles but they are in quite good shape. I also use much thicker patches in certain rifles.

 

[Kai Benedict]

Did some math on the barrel id and the distance across the rifle lands. I’ll try thicker patches next time out. Thanks for all suggestions.

 

[Rat]

Be aware that sometimes when patches seem to be cut by a sharp muzzle or lands, it's not always so. Just a FYI when reading patches. Sometimes it is so, to be sure, but I've found a way to test that out.

Not too long ago I discovered that with one wad under the ball, my Jeager would produce a patch with some cutting/tearing. Looked just like they were being cut, or torn at the muzzle. Two wads under the ball, same load, and the patches come out looking like the ones Hanshi pictured. I call those "use again patches". But obviously, if they were being cut by the muzzle, while loading, an extra wad would not "fix" that.

Anyhow, my experience has been, small ball, thick patch, seems to always work better than the other way around. Good luck.

 

[Erwan]

Mint is white and a large hole in the center.

Are you sure that the thikness of the patches is good ?
If the patches are too thick that can be like that, the patches seems good but they're torn apart. Also if the lands and groves aren't polished enought at the mouth: the colors are good but you get a big hole in the center...
I had too this problem long time ago...

 

[Cowboy]

The weave in your patching should be tight woven material. Its less likely to tear than looser weaved material.

with your patch and ball rammed down up against your powder charge, followed by powder ignition, a good majority of heat and energy comes where the ball sandwiched the center portion of the patch against the powder.

With that being said, You could either opt for a thicker patch, or tighter woven patching material?

Just my thoughts my friend.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[AlanG]

thicker patches to be used which often allows the gun to be fired an entire afternoon without swabbing the bore.

You know Hanshi I've read that before here and on other Forums, but I've never found thicker patches have anything to do with "no swab" repeat shooting, at least with a decent patch lube.

 

[Grenadier1758]

The thicker patches have a lot to do with the no wipe between shots. You do have to lubricate them to a bit more than damp so the thicker patch with the extra lubricant will actually be wiping between shots but the fouling remains between the powder and the ball instead of getting accumulated at the breech.

 

[AlanG]

I guess my experiences are different regarding patch thickness affecting amount of shot you can fire. By that I mean my pet .45 is most accurate with a .024 patch. Once it's started in the barrel, it will of course go down "relatively" easy. However it requires one heck of a rap on the short starter to first, even with a nicely convex barrel crown. That's okay for bench/target work, but there is no way my old work- worn hands can short start a setup like that for long if I want to load straight out of the pouch continuously. That same gun will shoot .009 Linen patch or a commercial .010 patch with about 90 to 95 percent accuracy of the .024 patch which is plenty good enough for fun offhand/plinking etc. That combo short starts and loads with ease. Last Friday was a normal shooting session for me- about 60 continuous shots offhand with that .010 patch without any wiping at all. I always use the guns ramrod to load. I use a wet thru, but certainly not dripping or pooling lube on the patch- either Hoppes #9, Ballistol/water, Murphy's Alc. and water mix or Dixies Black solve. Not doing anything unique.

I always find it interesting/unique/odd when BP shooters have different experiences doing the same thing.

 

[pmccoywss]

I fought this battle many years ago. A GRRW Hawken I bought from the original owner left little or no patch to find when using 15-18 thou ticking, with spit, under a .490 ball. Went to .495 ball and same patching, then began to find my patched. The all had at least a 1/3 cut around the ball. Finally went to .498 ball and that problem was solved (BUT hard starting and low number of shots before I had to run wet patch - 2-3 with 120 gr 2F, 6-7 with 90 gr 2f).

Later used .495 ball with same square of felt under the patched ball, with good results (but extra work and item to carry).

Eventually solved the problem by staying with .495 ball, but using linen patches (cut from old napkins or tablecloths found at garage sales/auctions/Salvation Army.

 

[pmccoywss]

NY Yankee wondered, why linen?

Linen has a tighter weave than ticking, and the flax fiber is much stronger than cotton. Take a small piece of each, and put a match under it. You should see the linen resist the flame more than the cotton.

Works for me on my .50 and my .32.

 

[Erwan]

By my own experiment (not the best one: the other are good too) I can say that the flax tissue is the best one fort the patches also if it's easier to find the same material (in sizes) in cotton. It's difficult sometimes here also in the way of France is the first producer of flax (or linen) in the world: the largest part is sale to China and the cotton is imported.
Anyway, a good patch in flax at the right thikness and with a good lube will do the best: stronger than cotton and fine textured.
So I use always patches in linen with a bit of beef foot oil. That clean's the bore when chargin' and with the corner effect around the bullet that clean again the dross when shooting and so leaves the bore with soft residues ready for the patch of the following shot...
Now I'm doing this way about a bit more than fifty years and I found it pretty well

About the thikness of the patchs the value of the rifling of the bore: the corner effect around the bullet doing the job of cleaning when firing...

Kind regards.

 

[Buckskinn]

I built a Chambers Edward Marshall 54 cal and am new to flintlocks as well as patch and ball. I've been trying to find the right patch and lube combo as well. I've had everything from smoldering burned up patches to patches that look like a hole punch went through them and all that is left is the fringe that doesn't touch the ball. For lube I've used spit as well as ballistol/water (both dry and wet). The best patch I've found is pillow ticking, but it still has cuts at the rifling, no matter the charge. I think I will try and find some linen and give that a try.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Hi Guys,
To me, a good patch is one that looks that it could be used again.
If it is torn and tattered your balls will be scattered, and no particular group will exist.
My best resolve for good grouping is a lapped smooth barrel, a dry olive oil & bees wax soaked 1/8" felt wad over the powder, and a tight linen patch about .015"-.018" ( which is also oil lubed )wrapped around your ball. I do not use spit for patches as it will dry in your barrel, and also leave small rusting as your saliva has active digesting acids.
It really doesn't take any longer loading, but it does produce good groups.
Have a great day!
Fred