"coned" muzzle for quick loading

One of the classified guns has a"coned" muzzle for quick loading. Would someone explain this. Sounds interesting. thanks

 

[BrownBear]

Basically what it sounds like. The muzzle is back-bored an inch or more in a cone kinda like a slow-tapered funnel, so you can start a ball with thumb pressure rather than using a short starter. We're only talking a few thou, just enough to allow the patched ball to get below the crown. I've seen no loss of accuracy from coning my guns, and in fact it was a dandy way to improve accuracy on a couple that had damaged crowns.

There are sources for tools to do it yourself, and I recommend that. It's easy.

I'm not sure about the claim for "quick" loading though. Time you fiddle around grabbing a separate patch and ball, line em up and shove them in, you just might be faster using a loading block and short starter. I still prefer the cone, though.

 

[rabjr]

I like a coned muzzle because it allows me to press the patched ball down enough to manipulate the gun without loosing the ball.

Hard to see but my .58 is coned,

 

[Zonie]

The cone is a very slight taper, maybe 1-5 degrees at most. It is cut out to the point that most or all of the rifling at the muzzle is gone and because of the slight taper it can extend as much as 1" down the bore.

Many people have found that this helps to get the patched ball into the bore easily and they claim that accuracy is not hurt.

Others who have tested coned muzzles claim that there is a small effect on the guns accuracy because of the cone.

 

[jtmattison]

I coned a couple of my rifles and my Plains Pistol. It makes a big difference in ease of loading with no effect on accuracy. Joe Wood makes a great coning tool.

HD

 

[Greg Hardy]

I coned the muzzle on a CVA Kentucky rifle that I shortened the barrel on. I won't say it improved the accuracy, but it grouped at under 1 1/2 inches at 25 yards.

 

[wattlebuster]

I have coned my 54s an will cone my 40 before I complete it. I love them after being coned an cant tell any diffrence in accuracy. I used joe woods cone tool an would recommend it to anyone. An by the way Swampy that sure is an attention getting hole in that 58 barrel :grin:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Did mine too. It makes a world of difference in loading.

Easy mod for a big gain.

 

Thanks for the notes. I am in search of the tool as we speak. good shooting to you all.

 

[fyrfyter43]

Plenty of info about coning your muzzle here: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/223037/

I'm sure Joe Woods' contact info is in at least one of those threads.

 

[Rat Trapper]

I'd just like to add there was some testing done that was pretty involded, that proved that in their tests coning did in fact affect the accuracy in most loads. This was written up in Muzzleloading magazine.

 

[MSW]

I've used Joe Woods' tool to cone a .36 and a .40. These tools are easy to use, it doesn't take long, and the results look good.

As regards the accuracy issue, i'm not a good enough shot to notice an appreciable difference, but some say that it damages accuracy.

just one guy's free opinion, and no doubt worth the price.

make good smoke!

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Having to force a PRB in the muzzle must affect the accuracy too.

I'll take easy loading any day over a 1/2" better group.

 

[Rat Trapper]

I'll go with the small group!

 

[Semisane]

I'll go with the small group!

Amen Rat Trapper. :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

Not having any need for faster or easier loading I don't have any coned barrels...and I say that so its clear that I don't have any investment in the decision others make on this subject one way or another because of the comment I'm about to make:

On this issue of coning, I've always had the thought...right or wrong...that if it was an advantage, barrel manufacturers surely would have begun including it as part of their barrel offerings, or at least as a simple option to have done as part of the purchase, precisely done in a machine shop environment...and you specify like "with breechplug or without"..."with cone or without".

Example: Call Rice Barrel Co.
"Yes, I want to buy your Rice .58cal x 42" D-weight swamped barrel, with a coned muzzle please"

Is that a commonplace offering from barrel manufacturers?

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I'll go with the small group!

Elk have an 18" kill zone.

1/2" better group for the gongs I shoot at shoots would make no difference.

You must be a paper puncher?


To be honest. I just through out the 1/2' number. I haven't seen any difference in accuracy by putting a small crown on the barrel. It mat have gotten better, because I think I was cutting patches on the sharp crown before.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

You guys got me thinking. I had put a small crown on my Renegade barre, but I haven't touched the GM barrel I bought for it.

I just called GM to talk about this. He said to not touch their barrel, and it could indeed hurt accuracy.

I won't be touching it.

 

[Dphar]

One of the classified guns has a"coned" muzzle for quick loading. Would someone explain this. Sounds interesting. thanks

Its an excellent way to turn a good rifle barrel into a mediocre one according to a friend to actually did some testing.
The need for this exists between peoples ears.
The "funneled muzzle" that has become popular with people who apparently do not do serious accuracy testing. It is a parody of what as done on some original rifles.
If you read the chapter on the so called "Parkman Rifle" in John Baird's book "Hawken Rifles, The Mountainman's Choice" you will find a description of an original "coned" muzzle.
The cone is very slight as it must be if any accuracy is to be maintained.
If the bore is cut away at the muzzle to the extent many are doing today accuracy WILL be affected.
A good, properly polished crown will work just as well and will not degrade accuracy.
How hard a rifle loads is very often related to the patch lube or more importantly the crown.

This is a 54 Douglas barrel, 535 ball, .020" patch. The rod is tapered and is 3/8" or slightly less at the small end. Patch lube is Whale or Neatsfoot oil.
http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i199/DPhariss/Video 1/?action=view&current=IMGP0620.mp4

The rod is the original to the rifle and it was made in the 1980s.
But its a carefully made STRAIGHT grained hickory rod.
I have a 50 caliber with GM barrels that I load a .495 ball and the same patch.
Young shooters may need a starter. Shooting balls of bore size or more may need one. But most people only need one because they either use a lube that loads hard, have a bad crown or simply never learned to load without one or don't want to. It is, after all, personal choice.

This is as close as I get to "coning". This is a 58 caliber barrel after a proof load of 220 gr of FFF Swiss. The crown shows very well here. This is a hunting rifle and I relieved it just little more than I normally would. Its not as deep as it appears here when you consider the narrow lands of the GM barrel.

Dan

 

[Ken Cormier]

I want that sec pic for wallpaper