thanks for any recommendations you can give me. I have never built a kit before and would like to give it a try. i'm looking for a full stock kit in .50 or .54cal. other than that i just want one that is not too complicated since i have never done this before. i was thinking about the bedford county, pa kit from TOW or maybe one of the long rifles from Pecatonica River Long Rifle Supply. i have been reading the posts here for a couple of months, but there are just so many different rifles and suppliers that i have no idea which to pick for a first project. i have ordered the gunsmith of greenville county and recreating the american long rifle to help me with the kit. i need a reccomendation from the experts here on the forum. thanks
confused by so many kits
- Thread starter cavscout
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I like Muzzleloader Builders Supply for stuff. I think the Southern mtn. Tennessee style rifle or NW trade gun for a smoothie is good for the first timer. Or a plain Leman or Henry. Remember, the Bedford is a gaudy style, and a real competent guy would have made it.
You choose two of the best books fer building that I know of. I have several others, but those end up being looked at more than the rest.
As you have probably read, kits vary. I've only really put two kits together, one TC a friend had & my Don Getz Lancaster Co. THe TC kit was easy, one week of evenings, but it's still a TC w/ the TC drop in fit of barrel & lock. The Getz kit took quite a bit longer, as I did decorative carving on the stock. Even so, it required real final inletting of the lock, barrel breech, buttplate, etc. Result is that the wood-to-metal fit is tight, not drop-in. Looks much better also.
TOTW does say their kits also require some experience, so basically you may want to select a kit based on what you think you can do & how mad you would be if it didn't turn out as you wished. (my first rifle, Ol' Firewood, was named that 'cause if all else failed, I could still use the stock for firewood)
Get to know chisels. Can't emphasize enough how good sharp chisels make the job easier, even for kits, 'cause they all have too much wood to begin with. And avoid the urge to use power wood working tools like Dremel until you get more experience on it. I only use such tools for roughout work, NEVER for final inletting. Too easy to remove wood that should stay.
Anyway, everyone has to start somewhere. Good luck on whatever kit you get.
As you have probably read, kits vary. I've only really put two kits together, one TC a friend had & my Don Getz Lancaster Co. THe TC kit was easy, one week of evenings, but it's still a TC w/ the TC drop in fit of barrel & lock. The Getz kit took quite a bit longer, as I did decorative carving on the stock. Even so, it required real final inletting of the lock, barrel breech, buttplate, etc. Result is that the wood-to-metal fit is tight, not drop-in. Looks much better also.
TOTW does say their kits also require some experience, so basically you may want to select a kit based on what you think you can do & how mad you would be if it didn't turn out as you wished. (my first rifle, Ol' Firewood, was named that 'cause if all else failed, I could still use the stock for firewood)
Get to know chisels. Can't emphasize enough how good sharp chisels make the job easier, even for kits, 'cause they all have too much wood to begin with. And avoid the urge to use power wood working tools like Dremel until you get more experience on it. I only use such tools for roughout work, NEVER for final inletting. Too easy to remove wood that should stay.
Anyway, everyone has to start somewhere. Good luck on whatever kit you get.
I agree with Donny- start with a plain gun with simple lines for your first attempt.
Hey ta Cav Scout;
I'm with Donny on this..
Do you want flinter, or cussion ??? I would start with a relatively simple rifle kit..
Maybe one of the gun kits from a company that has most of the inlay work already done; (ie.) lockplate, buttplate, sideplate, thimbles , already in the white.. I think baby steps build a lot more confindence, than tearing into something full tilt; and being sorry later..
If you are dead set on a full stock, be sure as much inletting as possible is already done for you.. There will still be enough work left to do.. fitting, sanding, staining ,finishing, etc. etc...
My first gun was from a barrel, a lock; and a board..
A friend and I were leaning heavily on each other as we were both building our first gun.. he is a welder and gifted metal worker; while I am a klutz..
It was a learning experience, but I don't want to have to do that again.. !!!
Be sure to have the phone number of a builder friend who can help talk you thru this gun making thing.. it really helped me.. gave me some trust in myself..
Bottom line; the journey is the adventure... :m2c: :imo:
If I can be of any help; let me know..
Winter well
limpin'frog
:results: :what: :results:
I'm with Donny on this..
Do you want flinter, or cussion ??? I would start with a relatively simple rifle kit..
Maybe one of the gun kits from a company that has most of the inlay work already done; (ie.) lockplate, buttplate, sideplate, thimbles , already in the white.. I think baby steps build a lot more confindence, than tearing into something full tilt; and being sorry later..
If you are dead set on a full stock, be sure as much inletting as possible is already done for you.. There will still be enough work left to do.. fitting, sanding, staining ,finishing, etc. etc...
My first gun was from a barrel, a lock; and a board..
A friend and I were leaning heavily on each other as we were both building our first gun.. he is a welder and gifted metal worker; while I am a klutz..
It was a learning experience, but I don't want to have to do that again.. !!!
Be sure to have the phone number of a builder friend who can help talk you thru this gun making thing.. it really helped me.. gave me some trust in myself..
Bottom line; the journey is the adventure... :m2c: :imo:
If I can be of any help; let me know..
Winter well
limpin'frog
:results: :what: :results:Not to highjack, but I'm in the same boat. I'm interested in building something that would have been used in my neck of the woods (SW PA) in the 1760-1795 period. I was thinking Bedford myself, because I like the looks of 'em. Sounds like I should be thinking more along the lines of a trade gun though. I'm not afraid of a little woodwork like inletting locks and such, but artsy stuff like carving is beyond me (for now).
I'm likely to take it out for deer once or twice, and re-enacting F&I isn't out of the question.
Given the above, what would be a good starting place for me?
I'm likely to take it out for deer once or twice, and re-enacting F&I isn't out of the question.
Given the above, what would be a good starting place for me?
CAV,
Before deciding what kit to get.....What are you going to do with it? I mean are you reenacting or see yourself doing that in the future? Then you need to look at timeline and what would fit the persona.
If for hunting or target shooting then look toward the Lancaster style. :imo:Something with a large buttplate that will absorb the recoil, swamped barrel that shoulders well and feels good shooting.
I do agree whole heartedly to start simple. No big fancy patchboxes or carvings that will ruin the experience for you. :m2c:
Packdog
Before deciding what kit to get.....What are you going to do with it? I mean are you reenacting or see yourself doing that in the future? Then you need to look at timeline and what would fit the persona.
If for hunting or target shooting then look toward the Lancaster style. :imo:Something with a large buttplate that will absorb the recoil, swamped barrel that shoulders well and feels good shooting.
I do agree whole heartedly to start simple. No big fancy patchboxes or carvings that will ruin the experience for you. :m2c:
Packdog
i could never do the carving,lol. i just liked the look of the bedford on the website. that is why i was asking for some reccomendations, so i didn't pick something over my head. i don't hunt or do reenacting, i just like to shoot. i got my first muzzleloader in june and just fell in love with it and want to build one because it looks fun to do. so i guess i'll keep reading and hopfully make some decision.
Guest
I will tell you this, cav scout. Last year I built a TOTW Jaeger kit. Now don't get me wrong, I love my Jaeger, but..........I really think I turned an $800.00 parts set into a $500.00 gun :no:. That is the flat out honest truth and I wish I had paid a pro to complete my kit for me. I will say that it was a learning experience and there is a certain kind of pride of having built it myself (with help from this forum) but I just don't have what it takes to do a gun any justice. You may have the needed "knack" for this undertaking, I did not. I did assemble two Lyman Great Plains Rifles and they are just fine. Not trying to scare you away from a serious build but just be ready for some serious challenges and hard learned lessons. I used the book, Recreating the American Longrifle but some videos have been mentioned that I wish I would have had with me to watch as I built my Jaeger. Now I need to think of a name for my rifle :hmm: Good luck and best wishes. Keep us posted, it will help other prospective builders. Maybe we will hear from pcrum on this, he was just beginning a TOTW kit.
I don't know if you all are giving cav scout what he wants. I suspect he's wanting someone to tell him Manufacturer and model or style. Maybe a choice of 2-3 for a beginner, intermediate, experienced. All the while hoping one or more might be a style he really the lines of.
In my case I think after reading the Builders Bench for a couple of months I'm entirely scared out of building one myself. Maybe a pistol some day. Never a rifle. Giving Jaegermeister his due I suspect I would turn an $800 kit into a $300 rifle if I was extra careful. :cry:
You have no idea how much I respect the work I've seen exhibited on this site. :master:
In my case I think after reading the Builders Bench for a couple of months I'm entirely scared out of building one myself. Maybe a pistol some day. Never a rifle. Giving Jaegermeister his due I suspect I would turn an $800 kit into a $300 rifle if I was extra careful. :cry:
You have no idea how much I respect the work I've seen exhibited on this site. :master:
Tinderbox is right. A suggestion of some simpler kits would be much appreciated among us newbies and lurkers. I built a GPR many years ago and recently decided to try a "real" kit. While I would someday love to have an Isaac Haines type flintlock hanging over my mantle, I know I do not have the skill to do the carving to do it justice. My plan is to work up to it.
A few weeks ago I decided to get my feet wet and ordered a pistol kit from TOTW. I currently have all the parts except the stock which was backordered.I think this will be a good starting point. I already realized I will probably need to spent as much money on tools as I did on the kit!
I think my next project will be a simple trade gun or fowler...something authentic to pre-revolutionary New England colonists.
Thanks to all who post such valuable information here. A lot of us may not post a lot but we sure read all your posts and find them very educational.
Jim
A few weeks ago I decided to get my feet wet and ordered a pistol kit from TOTW. I currently have all the parts except the stock which was backordered.I think this will be a good starting point. I already realized I will probably need to spent as much money on tools as I did on the kit!
I think my next project will be a simple trade gun or fowler...something authentic to pre-revolutionary New England colonists.
Thanks to all who post such valuable information here. A lot of us may not post a lot but we sure read all your posts and find them very educational.
Jim
What you NEED to find is a builder close to you that you can go observe part of his work, or a good friend to send you 200-300 photos of each step of the way to guide you. The book "Gunsmiths of Grenville County" is a fabulous builders book, but there ain't nuthin like seeing it in hand or a detailed photo of the exact part ya are working on & exactly how it is done.
Also just because you are building a style, idoesn't mean it has to be carved or engraved. 99% of the original ML rifles had neither & they were very basic plain utility rifles. I suggest building the Isaac Haines as it is a rifle with good lines & it looks great plain or fancy, and the balance & hunting capabilities of it are wonderful. I would buy the kit from Jim Chambers, Wayne Dunlap, or TOW if I were to buy one. (If you use TOW make sure they have it ALL in stock as they are notorious for backorders now) I have built the kit from all three places & all were fine, the first two being the best kits, with TOW being slightly cheaper (I don't buy by price tho, I go by quality) The Chambers & Dunlap will have the best wood by far.
I also suggest going up 1 grade of wood from plain if you are going to not carve it as this will add a lil class to the rifle & make ya a nice rifle.
(I never hear anyone complain about Too Fancy of wood when they are done building a rifle, however I have leard LOTS of people say they wish they had used a better grade of wood)
Jump on one & get your feet wet............. ya never know if ya don't try & if ya get it & can't do it, send it to a builder & have it built.
:thumbsup:
Also just because you are building a style, idoesn't mean it has to be carved or engraved. 99% of the original ML rifles had neither & they were very basic plain utility rifles. I suggest building the Isaac Haines as it is a rifle with good lines & it looks great plain or fancy, and the balance & hunting capabilities of it are wonderful. I would buy the kit from Jim Chambers, Wayne Dunlap, or TOW if I were to buy one. (If you use TOW make sure they have it ALL in stock as they are notorious for backorders now) I have built the kit from all three places & all were fine, the first two being the best kits, with TOW being slightly cheaper (I don't buy by price tho, I go by quality) The Chambers & Dunlap will have the best wood by far.
I also suggest going up 1 grade of wood from plain if you are going to not carve it as this will add a lil class to the rifle & make ya a nice rifle.
(I never hear anyone complain about Too Fancy of wood when they are done building a rifle, however I have leard LOTS of people say they wish they had used a better grade of wood)
Jump on one & get your feet wet............. ya never know if ya don't try & if ya get it & can't do it, send it to a builder & have it built.
:thumbsup:
I'm a new guy to building so I don't have the broad experience with a lot of these kits some of you do, but as the question has been ask.... I don't think you can go wrong with a Chamber's or Dunlap kit. Some builders would say they might have gone to far trying to inlet eveything but that can be a help to a new builder. One of the frustrating things for me to learn was waiting for parts. Ask before you order as Birddog mention. He is right on the money about all of it. Especially the part about having a builder that can help or e-mail several hundred pics. (Birddog, Thanks for the pics by the way! Ha-Ha)
As was mentioned before, be prepared to spend as much money on tools as your first kit if you plan to continue building. Also get used to the idea you are going to make a lot of your own tools and doodads you will need. Good starting kit? Tip Curtis has a great TN pattern with lock already inlet(small Siler though)and most of the shaping done. :m2c: :imo: :results:
One more thing. IF you don't have a lot of tools and only plan to build one gun, maybe two then think about getting one in the White from someone like Birddog (If he does that?)or one of the other builders that does. You can spec what you want and how complete you want the job.
Packdog
As was mentioned before, be prepared to spend as much money on tools as your first kit if you plan to continue building. Also get used to the idea you are going to make a lot of your own tools and doodads you will need. Good starting kit? Tip Curtis has a great TN pattern with lock already inlet(small Siler though)and most of the shaping done. :m2c: :imo: :results:
One more thing. IF you don't have a lot of tools and only plan to build one gun, maybe two then think about getting one in the White from someone like Birddog (If he does that?)or one of the other builders that does. You can spec what you want and how complete you want the job.
Packdog
I am in the process of building my first rifle, I got my kit from TOW and am very happy with it, I chose the Issac Haines because I could get it left handed and it had a swamped barrel, I have never done anything like this in my life, so dont let that stop you... but what I will add is to read all you can about the gunbuilding processes, on these BB, in books, whereever you can get the info... ASK lots of questions if you cant find the answers> Take it slow and easy, dont be in a hurry to shoot it :nono:.. enjoy each new process as you do it. I have decided to NOT do any carving because I love the simplicity of this gun, the lines are beautiful without adding anthing else to it. Like the poster before me I have had pics sent by a more experienced builder (thanks Birddog) to get me through a process.. There is alot of knowledge on this board and these guys are very helpful. I am down to the sanding and staining...its been very fun, its very therapuetic and no doubt I will build another :winking: Have fun looking for that perfect kit :thumbsup: or blank and parts
Cookie,
I hope Birdddog has sent the pics of the plain .32 cal. I. H. he built. Had I seen that before I started carving my I.H. it would be very plain. The lines are there and a well built plain Jane gun looks better than a fancy middle of the road gun anyday.
:results:
Packdog
I hope Birdddog has sent the pics of the plain .32 cal. I. H. he built. Had I seen that before I started carving my I.H. it would be very plain. The lines are there and a well built plain Jane gun looks better than a fancy middle of the road gun anyday.
:results:
Packdog
