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Confusion!

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Aiden Fontana

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So, I am confused about the pattern of Long Land musket used during the French & Indian War. The Rifle Shoppe says that the 1728 model was the most popular, yet other sited state the 1742. Help! Thanks.

Aiden
 
The latter patterns would have only arrived with the Regts. comming over from England, There are other patterns in that time frame as well
 
On page 39 of the book The Brown Bess by Goldstein and Mowbray, they write "With more than 30,000 Pattern 1742s shipped across the Atlantic during the Seven Years' War, it can be said that this pattern composed the first real influx of standard British martial arms to reach America."
 
The Pattern 1748 was the musket everyone wanted but was only supplied to regts. fresh from England.
 
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Amen brother...lock makers marked and dated their locks when made. The ordnance guys, or private makers, basically pulled finished locks out of the barrel and built the guns around them. Sort of simplified I'll grant you but basically how it was done. This is the reason there can be early fixtures on a musket with a later dated lock.
 
Again though folks, you have a tough time generalizing from information from that and other sources..

Also folks remember that the names for the muskets are really a modern attempt at grouping the King's Musket into three basic types, Long, Short, and East Indian/3rd. When you really look at them though, you find variations between where they were made, and improvements as they went along, PLUS you find older models retrofitted.


Shipping muskets to the colonies is not the same as issuing out muskets to colonials. For example, Maryland maintained a large number of Bess muskets in arsenals, and the returns for the inspections at the beginning of the F&I War show that they were clearly not the "improved" version of the King's Musket. So militia from Maryland probably would not have had the improved version of the Bess at the beginning of the F&I.

So you probably would find the newer versions of the Bess in the hands of British regulars or British Equipped Provincials (such as the 60th "Royal Americans" or the 80th "Gage's Light Infantry") and the muskets themselves entering the colonies in places like New York City, and Philadelphia, but not throughout the entire 13 colonies.

Remember too that PA was especially a problem as they had no established militia system such as that of Maryland or Virginia, which existed for more than a century by the time the F&I began. So troops from colonies bereft of muskets might get the freshly imported model.

Militia in colonies that didn't really have a problem with the French and their Indian allies would not have seen any of the newer muskets. So South Carolina and Georgia may not have encountered the improved muskets until say the 1760's.

When Bouquet goes against Pontiac in the 1760's, he is by then probably arming his provincials (that aren't already armed with older muskets) with the "1742 version" of the Bess. First as he had to raise men for the expedition, and second Philly was his major storage area for arms and other supplies for his expedition.

Now by the AWI the Bess and it's variations are three decades old, or nearly that, and the improved Long-Land Bess was by far the most produced British musket pattern of its time. So numerous in fact, that as the new "short land" pattern muskets began to be produced, they were stored and not issued and a policy was set to deplete the older muskets from storage first before the new muskets would be used.

Plus a lot of the older muskets were later changed to be closer to the newer models. So you could've probably found a 1728 version Bess with a shortened barrel, a metal rammer, and perhaps some sort of metal reinforcement of the nose of the stock, even a "nose cap", yet the frizzen would still be unsupported by a bridle.

As for repro muskets...,one company calls theirs the "1748", another calls theirs the "improved 1728", another calls it the "1756 pattern", and another the "1742 version". Of these, one company offers a "1740" version with the improved lock with a wooden rammer, or a later version with a steel rammer and a metal nosecap, and another offers offers a "1742" with "steel rammer conversion" and no metal nosecap, and proclaims that the version with the nose cap and straighter lock (what some call a 1756) is not correct for the F&I.

Tough to tell what is based on scholarship and what is based on marketing.

Bottom line, if you obtained a copy of a "long land" pattern musket with a metal rammer, and a bridled frizzen, you should be fine for F&I era events onward even if it has a metal nosecap.


LD
 
The Bess family tree although quite straight foward for some of us ,it does indeed become a minefield when applied to North America and locialy raised troops of the F&I to AWI peroids and to throw a spanner into the works you add in all the other British Military long arms brought into North America at this time . The problem then gets a bit more of a twist when reading first hand writings and the writer has miss used terminoligy, then we get modern thoughts and words and apply them to this the whole lot goes south in a cluster very fast. The best way for newbees is a sort of reverse enginering way of taking apart the imformation and sorting through it to atempt to get to the facts (at times close will be as far as you will get )There is also the Military and Social pecking orders to sort through to work out who got what and when .Also good knowledge of how the Ordnance Board worked at different times in these times is the one big must as well as detailed correct unit histories , good hunting :)
 
What are the chances of a Farmer or hunter comming up a day or two later on the scene of a fight,dead still laying there,and grabbing one of the Bess's laying there and running off with it?

I'm not a historian,I have a TRS 1742 Bess that is scarey accurate,and my "persona"if you will is a guy late in life,(it's now 1813)hunting as best he can with his Bess,"aquired" years before and lovingly cared for.

Plausable? Ps.I love all thing's Bess!
 
pathfinder Ted said:
What are the chances of a Farmer or hunter comming up a day or two later on the scene of a fight,dead still laying there,and grabbing one of the Bess's laying there and running off with it?

I think rather unlikely...
Why would the victors leave the spoils of war that could be sold for a profit back in "town"?
 
They were sold off when they were old and out of service, at times these were also given out to settlers (not in the US )
 
There were folks who would follow war just to loot the dead.
Often times even though you are victorious in a local battle your going to have to either fall back and lick your wounds or reposition your forces. Cleaning up after a battle was not always top priority.

If a battle is waged in my farms fields and I find a firearm laying about a few days later I would consider it god given payment for the damages to my property.
 
Also various contracters made muskets for sale to :) civilians and for trade through out the empire.You also have US builders making guns up from parts etc..
 
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