Conical bullets in a cap and ball revolver

[Wolfman0125]

Can conical rounds be used in a Navy or a Colt Walker? If so, are they more accurate?
Thanks for any info,

M

Conical cartridges will work as long as the frame is cut out to accept them. Some Pietta models do not have this cut out. Also Conical billets were the norm as far as field use during the war, they tend to be less accurate than round balls. The conical bullet packs more punch and travels at a lesser velocity than a round ball due to the added weight.

 

[nkbj]

Back century before last accuracy was probably just about the last thing on anybody's mind when shooting conical nosed bullets.
I've never found a quick and easy way to make semiwadcutters, wadcutters and round noses accurate in a piece except to tinker with them. Would anybody ever think that just right off the bat they were going to get good revolver accuracy with misaligned bullets smaller than their rifling? That doesn't work well in percussion revolvers any better than in centerfire revolvers, yet that's what most people try.

Some day I still want to try the "long ball", a bullet with an identically rounded fore and aft and a little shear ridge halfway down the side, no lube groove. You wouldn't be able to size it to fit a particular piece but the cylindrical smooth side could be made to fit a given manufacturer's standard practices. If the ends were blunt (though rounded) there would be little reduction in powder charge for a significant increase in weight. I think that would be the way up the momentum without a loss of accuracy due to misalignment. Maybe some day.

 

[ord sgt]

Any accuracy difference from .451 to .454?

A shooter whom I know swears by the .454 roundball in his Remington. He had work done on the cylinder, making all of the chambers the same size.
I get good results with the .451 roundball in my Pietta Colt. It all depends on the pistol. Try both sizes and see which works best for you.

 

[Major Dorman]

I have a Manhattan firearms .36 caliber bullet mold (1 conical/ 1 roundball)that was passed down in my family. I have cast 1 conical in it. I need to cast another and compare it to the modern conicals.

 

[CAndersen]

In my experience round balls are more accurate - conicals have more mass and penetrate deeper.

 

[Wolfman0125]

In my experience round balls are more accurate - conicals have more mass and penetrate deeper.

I watched a video where the shooter achieved the opposite result and found that the ball had slightly deeper penetration through a wood block. Charge would have a lot to do with the results though. He loaded them equally in the video. The conical has more mass and has more knock down power. The big idea behind the conical bullet was the ability to fire a rifle caliber and charge from a revolver like the Colt Walkers that could take out a man or his horse. They were not known for their accuracy. But for accuracy and penetration within the target, I would say the ball would be your best bet. It is fun to use both. For the best bullet round, the Johnston and Dow conical bullet has the best design and are historically accurate.

 

[B P Arn]

When I first got into black powder handguns about ten years ago, I bought Lee ball and conical bullets for my 36 and 44 caliber revolvers. I was so sure that the conical bullets would be the way to go. They weren't. After much frustration, and dismal performance on paper, I threw away the conical bullet molds, with no regrets.

Some times the juice ain't worth the squeeze...

 

[Wolfman0125]

Too bad you threw them away. They are high dollar now. They still are good to go in display cases and for SHTF scenarios when ammo is scarce. Like now.
I like to make the cartridges for display cases and as a hobby. The caps and cartridges are some reproductions that I make.

 

[B P Arn]

No regrets about tossing the conical molds; they just weren't worth the fuss. I did keep the round ball molds, though. Very happy with my decision.

BTW, mine were modern Lee aluminum molds, not retro-looking brass ones. The molds were fine, as most Lee products are, it's just that conicals are a lot of messing around for nothing.

 

[Wolfman0125]

Oh I see. Thought you meant the brass repros. Yeah I’m trying to find a Johnston and Dow mold for sale. Right now I have to buy the bullets for my cartridges. I have the brass molds for show but the Johnston and Dow conical doesn’t shoot too bad a grouping at shorter ranges. But I agree nothing beats the ball as of yet.

 

[Throwdown58]

At pistol distances there is no material difference in accuracy with the conicals out there. There is however a huge difference in ballistics. You are talking about 150 gr ball vs a 240gr conical. If you load the conicals up to snot they are very impressive as a handgun round.

 

[rrebuck]

This may sound dumb to the more experienced, but I've wondered why I never hear anybody mention using patched balls in a revolver? Would it interfere with the rotation of the cylinder or would you just need to use an uncommonly sized ball? I thought it would nearly eliminate any chance off chain fires.

 

[B P Arn]

In my experience, there was a tremendous difference in accuracy between the round call and conical bullets, the round balls being much more accurate. They are much easier to load, also.

 

[Throwdown58]

You probably didn't try the Johnson and Dow bullet, or the Colt Walker bullet. The molds are very hard to get and are not currently available. They are the only bullets I have seen that shave evenly in a 44, and they are very accurate. The Richmond in the .36 also is like that, but they are hard to shave using just the lever.

 

[dennyntx]

Can conical rounds be used in a Navy or a Colt Walker? If so, are they more accurate?
Thanks for any info,

M

I have used them in mine but I find that round balls are much more accurate

 

[Wolfman0125]

This may sound dumb to the more experienced, but I've wondered why I never hear anybody mention using patched balls in a revolver? Would it interfere with the rotation of the cylinder or would you just need to use an uncommonly sized ball? I thought it would nearly eliminate any chance off chain fires.

I believe the patch is only to help lube the bore, minimize fouling and to prevent powder from escaping around a misshaped ball. It doesn’t really interfere with the ball anymore than wadding in a shotgun. Just my theory.

 

[Wolfman0125]

I would not recommend conical bullets in a brass frame revolver. Also some Traditions and Pietta models won’t accept them unless you remove the cylinder to load them or have the frame modified. Personally I think the ball is superior to the conical anyway.

 

[Jay Templin]

I bought a Johnson and Dow mould from Eras Gone, and had absolutely *terrible* accuracy in my Pietta 1860; the loading smashed those beautiful points into wadcutters. I checked into it and learned that Pietta plungers are shaped for roundballs. I swapped in an Uberti plunger (which is made for conicals) and have been very pleased with the results.
Jay

 

[Wolfman0125]

I bought a Johnson and Dow mould from Eras Gone, and had absolutely *terrible* accuracy in my Pietta 1860; the loading smashed those beautiful points into wadcutters. I checked into it and learned that Pietta plungers are shaped for roundballs. I swapped in an Uberti plunger (which is made for conicals) and have been very pleased with the results.
Jay

A very good point! ( pun intended LOL) One of the major differences in Uberti versus Pietta. Pietta will squash a conical pretty badly. I hope that Eras gone will have them back in stock soon. I’ve had no luck in finding a mold to make them myself, and it’s 50 cents per round to buy them. I only plan on using the mold for making period correct cartridges for display cases more than actual shooting. I still prefer the swagged ball for shooting.

 

[Throwdown58]

You know I've seen people say that they have to replace the plunger so that the bullet isn't defaced, but the advice is being given by people who have not been in the shooting sports for any length of time. Historically the most popular bullet in revolvers for target shooting has been the wadcutter, so named because it has a flat face and punches a nice hole in the target. There are even semi-wadcutters designed for semi-autos, for the same effect. When the Pietta plunger smushes the bullet, it looks like a semi-wadcutter, and will be no less or more accurate than a perfect cone at pistol distances. The base of a bullet effects accuracy far more than the nose.

A ball, in a 58 Remington especially, is extremely accurate at pistol distances, but at 140-150gr, is ballistically challenged. For steel plates ten feet away, they are awesome. But I have carried a BP revolver in states where my carry permit does not work for decades, and the ballistics of a 240gr conical is far superior. With the JD bullet, that unlike the original Lee bullets shaves perfectly and flies straight, there isn't a case for a roundball as a defensive round in comparison. Likewise the Walker bullet in the larger cylinder Dragoon and Walker guns.

So the other issue here I see above is lube. In a BP revolver, usually we use lube, or a lube impregnated wad, over the seated ball. This both lubricates the bore, and prevents sparks from the cylinder gap from igniting a neighboring cylinder. The Johnson and Dow bullet has no lube grooves, like a ball, so it also needs similar treatment, or to be dipped in lube as the originals were in their paper cartridges. I am doing a lengthy article and video on this and will post it when it is done. My wife just had our 7th child and I have been delayed in getting it out.