Conical bullets in a cap and ball revolver

[aeatwood]

45-55gr of 2F, greased hard felt wad, and .454 swaged ball should give you about as much accuracy as the gun has, and is a hoot to shoot.

 

[mkpatrick]

I've heard folks say, 777, 3f, 2f, what are the differences? Is it burn rate? I think I heard 4f is for flash powder for flintlocks.
I think I have 2f and 3f GOEX.
I also have the Pyrodex equivalent but I've never used Pyrodex.

 

[B P Arn]

777 and Pyrodex are both black powder substitutes.

2F, 3F, and 4F are different granulation sizes for black powder, from coarse to fine. 2F is generally used for rifles and very large caliber pistols (I don't use it in 44 caliber guns, but it will work), 3F is for most revolvers (but can be used for flash pan powder for flintlocks), and 4F is flash pan powder, but can be used in handguns.

 

[rodwha]

I've heard folks say, 777, 3f, 2f, what are the differences? Is it burn rate? I think I heard 4f is for flash powder for flintlocks.
I think I have 2f and 3f GOEX.
I also have the Pyrodex equivalent but I've never used Pyrodex.

777 or Triple 7 is a brand of synthetic black powder. The higher the F the faster it burns and the quicker the pressure will jump. 4F is said to be only for flintlocks, but that’s not historical at all. The Hazards paper cartridges during the Civil War were loaded with 4F that was found to be energetic as Swiss/Olde Eynsford/Triple 7. Small bores and chambered guns mostly, though some people use it in their large caliber rifles and smoothbores. It’s not advised unless you know your gun and what you’re working with.

 

[M. De Land]

Well


Well, actually, I sent some cast bullets to an interested fellow who had been following my threads across various forums while designing my designs. He decided to load my Ruger bullet that I purposely created long driving bands on to generate a quicker higher pressure buildup since it would only have a roughly 25 grn 3F charge behind it in a Ruger. He used 52 grns of Pyrodex P and blew the chamber wide open.

I was referring to round ball use which is what the Walker was designed to shoot.

 

[mkpatrick]

Any disadvantage or advantage to using Pyrodex?

 

[Kansas Jake]

Pyrodex advantages are often easy to find locally and since it is lighter there are generally more shots per pound. Also, some claim you can fire more rounds with fouling being less of a problem.

Disadvantages are is isn't real black powder. It is harder to clean from the barrel and gun. Some claim it lingers a lot longer and has long term bad effects on the firearm. It is harder to ignite than real black powder so won't work in flint locks and may present some ignition problems with marginal caps etc. Velocity will be different from real black powder. It is also more susceptible to degradation over time.

This is the Cliff's Notes version of Pyrodex. I have used it and still do occasionally since I have some still. I prefer regular black powder.

 

[mkpatrick]

I have a couple canisters, maybe I'll try to trade it away.

 

[nkbj]

Anybody here tried bullets made to Samuel Walker's specification "cast 32 to the pound" and reworked their replica Walker to properly load them to shoot more accurately? I've just used .45 revolver and pistol molds (Ideal #45266 is a good one) and sized the bullets to fit the Uberti but it's tempting to cast original design bullets and make it work the way the originals were intended. I'm guessing the powder charge would be about 45 to 50 grains or so with the original design bullet.

 

[Rfp10000]

I have a Pietta 1858 Remington Steel Army .44 8 inch barrel. I purchased .450" diameter, 200 grain, conical revolver bullet for .44 Army Revolvers, cast from LEE 90382 from Track of the Wolf, Inc. Fun to play with but did not see any increase in accuracy with them.

What size round ball does your Pietta usually take?

 

[nkbj]

The other day was looking at an extra .36 caliber Pietta 1858. The cylinder could be reworked to accept bullets from .44 revolver molds (nominally .43" diameter) and keep the ligaments between chambers over .07" in thickness. The barrel has sufficient wall at the front sight and the ram latch to be rebored to suit. And I've already got a Lyman #429478 mold. Is there another stimulus check coming?

 

[nkbj]

What size round ball does your Pietta usually take?

The chambers on Pietta .44's are usually around 0.447"-0.448".
0.443" and 0.446" sizers are what I use to make bullet bases to slip into the chambers.

On a side note, some guys ream the chambers to get the ball size to better match the older Pietta barrels.
But wouldn't it be a better mouse trap just to replace the barrel?
In manufacturing at Pietta they've changed their barrels to a faster twist to give better accuracy. For the older revolvers why not just get barrels with a 0.447" groove diameter and a faster twist and length of your choice?

 

[Bad Karma]

The chambers on Pietta .44's are usually around 0.447"-0.448".
0.443" and 0.446" sizers are what I use to make bullet bases to slip into the chambers.

On a side note, some guys ream the chambers to get the ball size to better match the older Pietta barrels.
But wouldn't it be a better mouse trap just to replace the barrel?
In manufacturing at Pietta they've changed their barrels to a faster twist to give better accuracy. For the older revolvers why not just get barrels with a 0.447" groove diameter and a faster twist and length of your choice?

Where do you find a barrel like that? Someone could make one I guess... might be a whole lot more than that gun is worth.

 

[nkbj]

Where do you find a barrel like that? Someone could make one I guess... might be a whole lot more than that gun is worth.

Would definitely get a blank made. If several people were interested and went in together acquiring the blank and finding a qualified smith to turn them all out at once, the cost would probably be reasonable (eh, depending on what they though reasonable was).

 

[hawkeye2]

There are a number of smiths who regularly rebarrel Remingtons. Charlie Hahn is one and he uses barrels to his specs by Hoyt.

 

[Bad Karma]

There are a number of smiths who regularly rebarrel Remingtons. Charlie Hahn is one and he uses barrels to his specs by Hoyt.

He’s also reaming chambers to .456” ... which works very well with the stock Uberti barrel. I believe he charged me $35-45 per cylinder... very reasonable price really.

 

[hawkeye2]

He’s also reaming chambers to .456” ... which works very well with the stock Uberti barrel. I believe he charged me $35-45 per cylinder... very reasonable price really.

He does all my cylinders, Colt & Remington to .456". In fact he bought the reamer to do a Remington for me years ago. I cut a new 11 deg. forcing cone and it works with stock Piettas too. Can't beat this prices.

 

[nkbj]

That's a good price for reaming six chambers.

 

[Bad Karma]

That's a good price for reaming six chambers.

It is. And he didn’t bs me around the time it would take or any of the usual nonsense. Just did the work and shipped them back, toot sweet!

 

[M. De Land]

Would definitely get a blank made. If several people were interested and went in together acquiring the blank and finding a qualified smith to turn them all out at once, the cost would probably be reasonable (eh, depending on what they though reasonable was).

I have found that most of the factory barrels are not very level when checked with plug gauges and often are tight under the frame threads. This can be lapped out and there is no need for a new barrel. The Pietta's are more accurate than you can hold for if tuned (reamed , lapped and trigger job) up correctly using the original equipment.