Conicals for revolvers

[maillemaker]

These have a heel and load easy.

I didn't know Lee made a heeled .44 bullet. What is the mold number?

 

[SeaBee133]

I shoot an early (1972, first year) ROA. It likes .457 ball or .452 conicals. I cheat and buy plain lead .45acp lrn meant for SASS Wild Bunch shooting. Load with 3F Swiss, 3F T7 or 4F black (when I can find some).
Have trsted both projectiles in rank feral boars taken during quarterly clean out shoots. Both ball and conical will go completely through rib cages or skulls. Both get stuck in heavy shoulder gristle.
I do find the .457 is more accurate on paper. The .452 tends to have an occasional flyer. Just for giggles, found a box of .452 jhp in the gear I inherited from a friend last year. Loaded and fired 1 bullet. Not worth the powder invested, was a flyer from the word go. Jacketed bullets in percussion revolvers stay undersized.

 

[rodwha]

I didn't know Lee made a heeled .44 bullet. What is the mold number?

450-200-1R

https://leeprecision.com/mold-d-c-450-200-1r

 

[maillemaker]

450-200-1R

https://leeprecision.com/mold-d-c-450-200-1r

I have that mold. It is not a heeled bullet. You'll find these a bit trickier to load in a revolver chamber than an actual heeled bullet. With a heeled bullet, the heel slides into the chamber, making the bullet tend to drive straight home when pressed into place.

 

[nick_1]

that is the mold that I have. my bottom two bands measure .443 bullet itself is .449 and it seats easily .

 

[French Colonial]

Does someone make a heeled bullet for a .36 Navy?

 

[rodwha]

I have that mold. It is not a heeled bullet. You'll find these a bit trickier to load in a revolver chamber than an actual heeled bullet. With a heeled bullet, the heel slides into the chamber, making the bullet tend to drive straight home when pressed into place.

They’re designed specifically for cap n ball revolvers. Maybe they had a bad run? They wouldn’t sell many if they didn’t work.

I much prefer to create my own designs as there’s nothing else like them. But I do find the Ruger 220 grn RN interesting and might get it to use with the RB ram.

 

[rodwha]

Does someone make a heeled bullet for a .36 Navy?

Lee and some of the traditional conicals like Eras Gone I believe.

 

[maillemaker]

They’re designed specifically for cap n ball revolvers. Maybe they had a bad run? They wouldn’t sell many if they didn’t work.

I much prefer to create my own designs as there’s nothing else like them. But I do find the Ruger 220 grn RN interesting and might get it to use with the RB ram.

I assumed they were made for cartridges.

 

[AlexB]

Does someone make a heeled bullet for a .36 Navy?

https://www.erasgonebullets.com/store/product/-36-colt-cartridge-works
I like these pretty good.

 

[bpd303]

I have found that the 455 Webley cast in pure soft lead shoots very well in my 1847 Colt Walker with 20gr 3 ffg Goex.

 

[nkbj]

That's a nice looking bullet.

 

[nkbj]

I have that mold. It is not a heeled bullet. You'll find these a bit trickier to load in a revolver chamber than an actual heeled bullet. With a heeled bullet, the heel slides into the chamber, making the bullet tend to drive straight home when pressed into place.

My solution came to be using .45 bullets cast of soft lead and partially running them into a sizer die and back out again to put an appropriately reduced diameter tail on them. Nowadays I'm experimenting with a Pietta 1858 that has the chambers reamed slightly larger at the front so that I just size soft lead bullets .001" smaller than the enlarged section. My replacement nipples came in so if this icky cold will back off enough maybe I can do some testing on an old NEI .45 truncated cone mold.

 

[AlexB]

My solution came to be using .45 bullets cast of soft lead and partially running them into a sizer die and back out again to put an appropriately reduced diameter tail on them. Nowadays I'm experimenting with a Pietta 1858 that has the chambers reamed slightly larger at the front so that I just size soft lead bullets .001" smaller than the enlarged section. My replacement nipples came in so if this icky cold will back off enough maybe I can do some testing on an old NEI .45 truncated cone mold.

What nipples did you get?

 

[nkbj]

They're Slix-shot's. The flash holes are smaller than factory but bigger than Ampco's (aluminum bronze). Really wish I'd laid in a supply of the Ampco's for Pietta revolvers when they were available.

 

[AlexB]

They're Slix-shot's. The flash holes are smaller than factory but bigger than Ampco's (aluminum bronze). Really wish I'd laid in a supply of the Ampco's for Pietta revolvers when they were available.

Yeah me too.
The tow nipples work really well for me if the slixshots don't for you.
Cap fit is perfect with cci#11 and remington #10.

 

[smoothshooter]

actually grease over balls has great efect in stopping chain fires if your balls are under sized. tested it with a batch of .440 balls. agreed that not necessary for chain fires with .454 balls but I do find that no lube equals harder to clean.

Easiest thing to do is use the proper sized balls, which is what people should be doing anyway.
Why create a problem, then have to take actions to compensate for it ?
Eliminating the original problem negates having to deal with a solution.
In my experience my felt lubed wads keep fouling soft over long shooting strings.
You don’t have to believe this, but I have gotten as many as 96 consecutive shots out of my .36 Navy and almost that many out of my 1860 .44 Army without cleaning, and still had free cylinder rotation. Maximum charges of 3 F Schutzen.
My lube of choice is my home made mix of beeswax and olive (or any kind ) of cooking oil.
About a 1 to 3 ratio, estimated. Does not run in hot weather.

 

[smoothshooter]

There was zero research done back in the day. You will note that the same Army used a Jacket bullet in the 1911 because it would feed correctly. No expansions and it poked holes (which is true of all Ball to this day because the Army wants to shoot through things). Ergo, on no proof they decided 45 cal was the way to go. Same folks that decided the single load lever on a Mauser action was the way to ctonrol people going nuts in battle and shooting off all their ammo (yea like a Sergeant was gong to stand up and walk behind them in a battle and, hey Trooper Curtis, get that thing back on single feed until I say otherwise, ooops, the Sergeant just bought the farm, boys, we can go to multi fire!)

So, Philippines proved 38 caliber was inadequate, so they go to 45 caliber but then for the 45 ACP its a ball round that does nothing expansions wise. Really? Yea. Then they decided 45 ACP was just too brutal and we got 9mm (ball) and .......

Equally in a battle no one is comparing, hey Joe has ball and I got conical s and boy do they work better. Someone did an article on the most shot guy back in the day, 20 some times (23-27? can't find it) and he lived. They did not say Concial or not but likely it was per the pre loaded cartridges. In a Calvary action you are going to see the difference?

I suspect a Concial was easier to put in a paper cartridge than a ball was so that is what they used. I could be wrong, that just conjecture on my part. Maybe someone did some ballistics tests? Nah..

I tried Conicals . Certainly no better than ball, probably worse. What I can say is nothing beats the 1 inch group I got out of an unmentionable with a SWC Lead 200 gr. Yea that was a once off, more typical is 2 inch groups, but they are more consistent than ball or conicals which varies quite a bit (lack of control of the compaction of the powder I suspect as well as better ignition characteristic of smokeless and primers all contained in a case)

Now they do Gell tests not because is mimics a human body all that well, but it allows consistent comparison of penetration and expansion in a known media that has some semblance to a human body.

Those statements above are simply not supported by an evidence but such is what urban legends are made of (before the Internet).

Conicals were used because it was easier to attach the combustiblr pa

 

[smoothshooter]

actually grease over balls has great efect in stopping chain fires if your balls are under sized. tested it with a batch of .440 balls. agreed that not necessary for chain fires with .454 balls but I do find that no lube equals harder to clean.

Not my experience.
I have gotten as many as 96 consecutive shots out of my .36 Navy without cleaning, and still had free cylinder rotation .
The conicals were used because it was easier to attach the paper cartridge tul to the flat, parallel sides.

 

[smoothshooter]

There was zero research done back in the day. You will note that the same Army used a Jacket bullet in the 1911 because it would feed correctly. No expansions and it poked holes (which is true of all Ball to this day because the Army wants to shoot through things). Ergo, on no proof they decided 45 cal was the way to go. Same folks that decided the single load lever on a Mauser action was the way to ctonrol people going nuts in battle and shooting off all their ammo (yea like a Sergeant was gong to stand up and walk behind them in a battle and, hey Trooper Curtis, get that thing back on single feed until I say otherwise, ooops, the Sergeant just bought the farm, boys, we can go to multi fire!)

So, Philippines proved 38 caliber was inadequate, so they go to 45 caliber but then for the 45 ACP its a ball round that does nothing expansions wise. Really? Yea. Then they decided 45 ACP was just too brutal and we got 9mm (ball) and .......

Equally in a battle no one is comparing, hey Joe has ball and I got conical s and boy do they work better. Someone did an article on the most shot guy back in the day, 20 some times (23-27? can't find it) and he lived. They did not say Concial or not but likely it was per the pre loaded cartridges. In a Calvary action you are going to see the difference?

I suspect a Concial was easier to put in a paper cartridge than a ball was so that is what they used. I could be wrong, that just conjecture on my part. Maybe someone did some ballistics tests? Nah..

I tried Conicals . Certainly no better than ball, probably worse. What I can say is nothing beats the 1 inch group I got out of an unmentionable with a SWC Lead 200 gr. Yea that was a once off, more typical is 2 inch groups, but they are more consistent than ball or conicals which varies quite a bit (lack of control of the compaction of the powder I suspect as well as better ignition characteristic of smokeless and primers all contained in a case)

Now they do Gell tests not because is mimics a human body all that well, but it allows consistent comparison of penetration and expansion in a known media that has some semblance to a human body.

Those statements above are simply not supported by an evidence but such is what urban legends are made of (before the Internet).

Years I came across re-prints of after action reports filed during the Philipine Insurrection after the .45 Colt revolvers started being used in combat with the Moros.
Reports stated there was little, if any difference in stopping power between the .38 and .45 caliber revolvers. The only guns that put them down pretty reliably with almost any decent hit were the .45/70 Trapdoor Springfield, .30/40 Krag, and 12 gauge shotgun with 00 buckshot.
The Moro tribesmen were known to begin drugging themselves up a day or two before planned attacks with drugs that made them less susceptible to pain, and wrap their testicles with wet leather strips that shrunk as they dried. This enabled them to work themselves into a drug and pain and adrenaline-filled frenzied ceremonial dances immediately before an attack.
They were often psyched up and half out of their minds during battles.