Conicals in .36 revolvers

[Secesh]

I’ve always shot round balls, never a conical, in the cap & ball revolvers I’ve had over the years. Right now I have an Italian ‘51 Navy and soon will add a Spiller & Burr and I’m looking to try some conical bullets in them. Not sure if the cylinder lengths of the two are the same as I don’t have the Spiller in hand.

I looking for suggestions, recommendations for bullet sizes and powder charge from anyone who shoots conical bullets in their .36 revolvers.

 

[nkbj]

Ended up with an adjustable length round ball mold, modified by Erik at hollowpointmold.com.
The diameter on the cylindrical portion lets it slip into the Pietta chambers.
The spherical front shears on the chamber mouths.
The base has a slight cavity to prevent gas cutting.

 

[Secesh]

Pretty clever. Sort of similar to a Richmond bullet.

I assume you grease the chambers as normal or use a greased wad?

 

[nkbj]

Yep, grease in front. Thought about a lube for that shallow cavity made stiffer with more beeswax but never have got around to the experiment. Would need to seat the bullet on top of a wax paper disk I guess.

 

[Pete453]

I've shot the Lee in my uberti. It loaded beautifully, and shot better than ball, but that's relative. It's always been a cranky shooter, so im not sure how good they'll be after I reline the barrel this winter. There was a thread on here by BALLSHOOTER, he was running conicals. Check out the group he shot

I CHALLENGE All the naysayers that say thier short arbor Uberti shoots as good as one that is set up correctly!

 

[Secesh]

Ended up with an adjustable length round ball mold, modified by Erik at hollowpointmold.com.
The diameter on the cylindrical portion lets it slip into the Pietta chambers.
The spherical front shears on the chamber mouths.
The base has a slight cavity to prevent gas cutting.
View attachment 254600

This is the Richmond Labs bullet I was speaking of. While it doesn’t exactly look like your bullet it is of similar design.

 

[Secesh]

From information I have been able to gather elsewhere, I like the original Colt factory design. It has I believe a .380” drive ring with grease groove and a .364” base. Mold is made from original Colt factory specs. Should get a good seal in the chamber with added feature of the grease groove for lubrication. Plus, the base will make it easy to make up cartridges if I’ve a mind to.

 

[nkbj]

This is the Richmond Labs bullet I was speaking of. While it doesn’t exactly look like your bullet it is of similar design.

Yes indeed.

That modified round ball mold was altered expressly for the diameter that Pietta put in their chambers. Probably couldn't hit a No.9 wash tub at twenty paces in a Uberti unless the diameter was changed to suit the Uberti.

The Richmond Labs bullet has a long area that gets shaped by the chamber to become barrel contact length and that makes it more adaptable to various chambers. It's a good design that makes sense for supplying an army in the days before manufacturing to close tolerances.

 

[Secesh]

I’m curiously anxious to see if the groove in the Colt bullet will be wide enough in order to retain enough lube for the trip down the bore. I believe Lee also makes a mold with a two groove conical, with a .380” overall diameter, similar to the Colt but with less of a pointed nose. That Richmond bullet is like .390” I think! Might need a hydraulic press for loading it.

Not going to buy a mold until I am able to measure the chambers. I’ve read that the Italian chamber diameters can vary slightly from one manufacturer to another. I believe the Piettas are the most consistent.

 

[Bad Karma]

Depends on when your Pietta was manufactured. Earlier Piettas varied wildly from chamber to chamber, often being out of round and all of them were undersized. Uberti were always closer to bore size and more consistent one chamber to another. It’s worth buying or borrowing a few pin gauges so you know what you have. I hear that Pietta has become more consistent than it once was but I am finished buying them so I can’t comment on the newer revolvers. Reaming the chambers is not beyond the reach of a home hobbyist.

I have only a few 36’s and I have used the Richmond bullet as well as the Lee conical and.380 ball. Typically over whatever powder charge is appropriate for the chambers. I believe these guns shoot very well with a full charge.

 

[6thtexas]

Erik does excellent work. he has modified some molds for me that I use in, you know, them other things

 

[Bad Karma]

Ended up with an adjustable length round ball mold, modified by Erik at hollowpointmold.com.
The diameter on the cylindrical portion lets it slip into the Pietta chambers.
The spherical front shears on the chamber mouths.
The base has a slight cavity to prevent gas cutting.
View attachment 254600

Unless you have reamed the chambers they’re likely a few thousandths under bore size yet the bullets obdurate to fill the bore. Very nice. If someone wanted such a mold for either Pietta or Uberti they could use a .380”, or as the case may be, a .454” ball mold as the base. The rebated portion being .448-9-ish… or .373-4”…

 

[Secesh]

I have only a few 36’s and I have used the Richmond bullet as well as the Lee conical and.380 ball.

What kind of accuracy did you get from using the Richmond bullet?

 

[Bad Karma]

It’s been a while but one of my pistols liked it, at least on a par with round ball. It’s a 6.5 inch Remington Navy. That gun will group into 2 inches at 25 yards with ball ammunition.

 

[sethwyo]

I’m curiously anxious to see if the groove in the Colt bullet will be wide enough in order to retain enough lube for the trip down the bore. I believe Lee also makes a mold with a two groove conical, with a .380” overall diameter, similar to the Colt but with less of a pointed nose. That Richmond bullet is like .390” I think! Might need a hydraulic press for loading it.

Not going to buy a mold until I am able to measure the chambers. I’ve read that the Italian chamber diameters can vary slightly from one manufacturer to another. I believe the Piettas are the most consistent.

Do you know if this is the same bullet that was used in the 38 Colt cartridge that was used in the converted 36 Navy revolvers ?

 

[Secesh]

Do you know if this is the same bullet that was used in the 38 Colt cartridge that was used in the converted 36 Navy revolvers ?

The bullet in the photo is original Colt spec. for the ‘51 Navy. I believe when the .38 Colt came along they loaded an outside lubricated heeled bullet. I’m not sure when the inside lubricated bullets came along.

 

[Smokerr]

I think its worth a try.

My experience is that my 76 NMA, my 23 NMA and the ROA are far less accurate with the Concial (I bought 60 just to play with and get an idea)

That said, as I had a nice day at the range for a change last week (42 deg in what we call a Chinook (wind, high temps and sometimes rain) but the wind was in the best direction from behind the shed . First time I could reload the ROA multiple times and my last try was to used a .454 balls (vs the recommended .457. It shot a lot better, a decent enough 2.5 inch group.

I have done a huge amount of rifle target shooting the last 10 years. You just never know what combo is going to work. H4831 is not a listed or a go to powder for 7.5 Swiss, but I tried it and my Swiss target gun I build off a Savage action loves it. One of the most accurate loads I have come across. Some barrels no matter what you do won't shoot (I had a poor 308 and a poor 7.5 Swiss by another mfg).

Its always worth a try for something different. I have miked the chambers on the guns and I can try .451 in all of them. Most experience is going up in diameter is a help if you can get a decent ram without pounding. In the case of the my ROA not true (and I have tried 777 and Pyro P and RS). The other two NMA have been poor by any standards.

Sadly there are no .452 ball out there, I would go with that but .001 extra is for sealing and I can test the band and make sure its safe (will also use a wad behind those)

 

[Secesh]

I think, once I am able to get all other irons in the fire tended to, I am going to give the .36 Richmond bullet a serious try in my revolver. The only thing I don’t like about the design is there’s no grease groove.

On the other hand, the Colt conical has a groove just not sure if it’s wide enough or deep enough to hold a practical amount of grease for the trip down the barrel.

If not, I’ll just continue to use my grease on top of the ball.

Wish I knew what the old horse soldiers thoughts were and what their preferences were regarding loading. I’m almost certain they didn’t do much field loading during a battle and depended on the revolver as a last resort or retreat weapon along with their saber.