Conicals & Rate of Twist in TC Hawken

[Marc Adamchek]

Does anyone know the twist in a TC Hawken? I can't find it anywhere in the manual. Is it 1-48?
Also, does anyone have experience shooting conicals through a TC Hawken? If so, what kind, and how did they perform?

 

[Rebel]

It is a 1-48" twist. Have you tried it with patched round balls. They shoot real well. If you are set on a conical you might try the T/C Maxi Ball or the Great Plains bullet.

 

[Swampman]

The T/C Hawken was designed to shoot conicals. To shoot roundballs well, you'll need a 1-66 twist barrel by Green Mountain.

 

[Rebel]

No it wasn't and no you won't. It will shoot round balls just fine. Try it and see. Some people just don't want to take the time to work up a good load.

 

[shifty-eyed_one]

I'll leave Rebel and Swampman to duke it out. :hmm:

However, I own a T/C Hawken in .50 caliber. I have fired both PRB's and two types of conicals out of it with great results.

My personal experience with 370 grain Maxi-balls and 90 grns. of Pyrodex RS has been great. At 50 yards, I consistently get 2" groups of 5 offhand. In other words, if I could shoot or see better, I think the rifle/barrel is capable of better.

With Hornady's great plains bullet of 610 grains (is that right?) is a little brutal on the shoulder, but only slightly bigger groups with 100 grns. of powder.

With PRB's, I have yet to work up a hunting load, but I had 2-3" groups offhand at 50 yards with the same powder load of 90 grns. I realize that that may be a pretty heavy load for shooting paper, but I want to simulate a hunting load for the PRB and that seems to be close to what it will be for me. Of course, any advice from those in the know, those with actual hunting experience, would be greatly appreciated.

So, as far as conicals, I have been very pleased with the Maxi-balls. I might try a 320 grain bullet next though. My only concern about the conicals has been lead fouling. I'm still not sure I need to worry about it, but there are so many on this forum who are willing to come crashing down on you at the mere suggestion of using conicals in a muzzleloader, that it has given me pause to think.

If I was to recommend a conical, it would be the T/C maxi-ball.

 

[Poor Boy]

:shake: PYRODEX (OH MY GOSH) Black Powder will ignite with about a 300 degree spark.800/900 degree spark to ignite PYRODEX.Plus I've found it to be gummy and harder to clean.
Olson

 

[Rebel]

No duking here, just two people expressing their opinions. And one giving some advice about conical choices.

 

[shifty-eyed_one]

:shake: PYRODEX (OH MY GOSH) Black Powder will ignite with about a 300 degree spark.800/900 degree spark to ignite PYRODEX.Plus I've found it to be gummy and harder to clean.
Olson

I bought a can of Goex to try on my next outing. Hopefully, that will make me a better shooter. I'm looking forward to see the cleanup difference.

I'm curious to know if there would/will be a difference in the results with the conicals or round balls?

 

[rebel727]

Round balls work well as do Maxi Balls and Buffalo bullets. I think that R E A L(Rifling Engraved At Loading) bullets work best. Sabots? nah, they tumble. JMHO

 

[Poor Boy]

:bow: I'm proud of you.You should know that in my chronograph tests I found black powder to be more consistant in it's burn rate. I also use GOEX

Olson

 

[Poor Boy]

Yea! forget the sabots, unless you like scrubbing melted plastic out of your barrel.

Olson

 

[Swampman]

I was just repeating what T/C has been saying in ther advertising since the 1970s.

 

[boar]

Marc This has been thru the mill before.There is back posts about this. My first gun was 54 TC Hawken.I shot max-balls with 110grs 2ff Goex and RBs with 42 grs,I used the RBs for grounghogs,I shot right thru one at 72yrds.Would shot the deer with max-balls. The 1-48 barrels are not rifled deep,why it is hard to get good groups with heavy RB loads,they were made to shoot max-balls.Max-balls will not seal good in deep rifeling. They finally came out with thier own slow twist barrel 1-66 for RBs, they missed the boat,should have had them way earlier. Missed a lot of sales to Green MT. Dilly

 

[Mad Professor]

I'll leave Rebel and Swampman to duke it out. :hmm:

However, I own a T/C Hawken in .50 caliber. I have fired both PRB's and two types of conicals out of it with great results.

With Hornady's great plains bullet of 610 grains (is that right?) is a little brutal on the shoulder, but only slightly bigger groups with 100 grns. of powder.

If I was to recommend a conical, it would be the T/C maxi-ball.

I think he meant 410 gr, Hornaday currently lists weights of 385, 410 , and 460 for the 50 cal. Be careful with 100 gr of powder. it's over the max load listed by hornaday (90 gr).

I've had good luck w/Hornadays GP conicals in both my 58 1-48 twist and 54 1-28 twist. If they are a loose fit in your barrel becareful that they stay seated over the power charge.

One more thing, unlike PRB, accurracy will be enhanced by swabbing between shots and in some cases using a wonder wad over the powder charge.

 

[dmills]

Funny that the original Hawkens made by good ole S&J Hawken in St. Louis were 1:48 twist, and I haven't ever heard that there was a roundball accuracy problem with those.

 

[Rebel]

They did have deeper rifling though, on the order of .010" as compared to about .005" for the T/C. So they gripped the patch and ball better. But you can still get good accuracy with a T/C, maybe not with as wide a variety of powder charges though.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Thanks, guys! I should perhaps mention that I've owned this gun for years, but have only shout roundballs with it. Very decent accuracy, but then again the heaviest load has been 70 - 80 grs of 3F. Actually, the most common load I've used is 50 grs of 3F, strrictly for targets, whether paper or other stuff more fun. Actually, my gun is a Custom Hawken, if that makes any difference. I've just started shooting it again and gosh darn it, it's a fun little gun! I just started wondering about conicals recently - I never shot them in ANY gun. Maybe thinking about using it in a hunting situation. It's so nice 'n light!

 

[Landngroove]

My .50 caliber, percussion, T/C Hawken, 1 in 48" twist barrel, shoots .490" round balls, with .018" patch, and 90 grains FFFG Goex with good accuracy, consistantly. I am very happy with this load, and would not hesitate to hunt deer with it. However, try as I might, I cannot get consistant accuracy, with a T/C Maxi-Ball, 370 grain, or a Buffalo Ball-et, 245 grain. I have tried Goex FFG, as well as FFFG, in different charges, but I can't get the consistancy of the round balls. I prefer to shoot round balls anyway, so this is O.K. However, every gun is different, and some like, what others don't.

 

[Charles/NM]

I guess I might as well throw in my 2 cents worth.
A T/C Hawken will reliably ignite any black powder or substitute you put in it. I"ve shot BP and Pyrodex in my .50 cal one for 30 years and have NEVER had even one failure to fire. I use #11 Remington and CVA caps. Must be something about the flame channel design in this weapon. That said I prefer close to max loads of Pyrodex because of it's clean burning characteristics. I can shoot all day with Pyro and T/C yellow manure in a tube for lubing bullets and patches. I was just given some old Goex fffG powder that I'm going to do some testing with to see if it burns clean enough to satisfy me. ffG Goex is way too dirty for my likes. There are no black powder dealers anywhere close to where I live, so my access to different black powders is a bit limited. However Wally World and the local gun store carries Pyrodex. I don't find any differences in cleaning my rifle with either propellant, it's a pain in the ass with both.
Bullets: The ideal bullet weight for a 1 turn in 48" .50 cal barrel is 350 grains according to the Greenhill forumla. In practice I have found that to be right on. 350 grain T/C Maxi-Hunter bullets are by far the most accurate fodder in my rifle. Going lighter or heavier by 20 or so grains doesn't degrade accuracy to any measurable degree.
Patched round balls: If I use an Ox-Yoke pre-lubed wad between my pillow ticking patch and the powder charge I get good accuracy - around 3/4" to 1" at 50 yards. I can't hold much better than that with open sights. With peep sights I can get an occasional 1/2" group, but that's not the norm. But in my somewhat less than humble opinion that's good enough for hunting deer sized game.
So there you have it, this crotchety old geezer's opinion.

 

[Runner]

The 385 GP HB HP bullet is a good choice in the 1-48 guns. If I was hunting in a place where I needed to drop them in their tracks most of the time, that is what I would be using. Using the powder charges that the big bullets need, the guns kick a lot more than I like. I much prefer to shoot roundball over moderate loads for pretty much all uses. Anyone that says a TC will not shoot roundball has never shot one very much.