Cook and Brother Carbine

[rdillion]

I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of my order Pedersoli Cook and Brother carbine. Any of ya'll have one of these. I'm wondering how well they shoot and what loads ya'll are using. Can't wait for this rifle to come in. :grin:

Ross

 

[Zonie]

Being a .58 (.577) caliber rifled musket it is made to shoot the hollow base Minie' bullets.

The original powder load for the typical rifled musket was around 60 grains of FFg powder. The short barreled "carbine" would probably be happy with a 55 grain powder load.
If you decide to shoot the Minie' bullets, try to find some that are just about .002 to .003 smaller than your guns bore.

If they are smaller than that, they usually aren't very accurate and if they are much larger you'll have a real problem trying to ram them down the bore.

There's a reason (beside historical) the powder load was only about 60-65 grains.
If it is much larger the higher pressure of the gas will "blow" the thin Minie' bullets skirt open as it leaves the barrel. If this happens, no telling where the bullet will head but it is seldom at the point of aim.

A lot of the owners of the .58 rifled muskets shoot .570 diameter pure lead roundballs with a patch.
These can be very accurate but because of the shallow rifling groove depth in these guns, they need to be tightly patched.
A .570 ball with a .015 thick patch is a good starting place.

Because the roundball doesn't have a thin skirt to damage, a lot of shooters up their powder loads into the 80-90 grain range.

Shot over a 90 grain powder load a .570 ball can be big medicine for about any critter in North America (except for Grizzly).

For you folks that don't know what rdillion has bought, follow this link
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/sc...brother-cook-e-brother-artillery-carbine.html

 

[nkbj]

In '83 worked with fellas in Louisiana that hunted with minies in .58 carbines. After seeing the results on deer they wouldn't have anything else.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Believe the Cook & Brother is basically a shortened M.1841 Mississippi carbine. If so, it probably ha the standard .58 caliber bore with shallow lands & grooves typical of the Zouave rifle & carbine previously made. Assuming this is so, it'd do best with hollow-based, Minie style projectiles and tightly patched round balls with charges around 50 grains of FFg or FFFg, you'll have to experiment with it to be sure. Good luck.

 

[cowrustler]

I have a Cook and Brother and may well hunt with it when our muzzle-loading season gets here. I've had good luck with 60 gr ffg and the Lee minie.

 

[rdillion]

Thanks for all the info. Great stuff here. :thumbsup: Funny thing is that about 6 years ago I bought all the accouterments for a Civil War era rifle and never got a rifle to go with them. :idunno: I have the cartridge box, cap pouch, belt, Lee Minnie Ball mold, and the red plastic quick load tubes. I wish I would have "pulled the trigger" then because the prices have really jumped on these in the last couple of years. I finally decided on one of the carbines. I think it will make a great tree stand deer hunting rifle. The short length will also make it great to carry on my 4 wheeler and mountain bike. I plan on starting with 60grs 3f and the Lee Minnie. Just wish it would hurry up and get here. :rotf:

Ross

 

[Alden]

60 gr 3f? Even in a short .58!? Hmmm...
:hmm:

 

[rdillion]

Yep, 60grs with a hollow based Minnie and 3f is all I have on hand right now.

 

[Bob E]

The cook and bros firearms were a Confederate copy of the Enfield short rifle and the Enfield carbine. Their total production was about 7500 fireams of all configurations.There were many small scale confed. firearm manufactures that usually produced under a couple of thousand pieces. Many of these guns were Mississippi knockoffs. Today the Italians are producing a copy of the JP MURRAY carbine that is based on the 1841.
60 to 70 gr. would probably be a great hunting load. Recoil might be stiff because you would be shooting a 500g bullet from a light weight gun. 40-50gr of powder should be a pleasant target load. Cheers, Bob E

 

[rdillion]

The J.P. Murray is a good looking rifle. I picked up the Cook and Brother because it was on sale. Can't wait to shoot it and find out about that recoil.

 

[Zonie]

With the load your thinking of, it will be about the same as a shotgun shooting a 1 1/8 oz load.

The slow burning black powder charge will give a very rapid, hard push rather than the quick slap modern smokeless powder gives.

 

[Wes/Tex]

The cook and bros firearms were a Confederate copy of the Enfield short rifle and the Enfield carbine. Their total production was about 7500 fireams of all configurations.There were many small scale confed. firearm manufactures that usually produced under a couple of thousand pieces. Many of these guns were Mississippi knockoffs. Today the Italians are producing a copy of the JP MURRAY carbine that is based on the 1841.

You are absolutely right, I was obviously of the J.P. Murray carbine make elsewhere...thanks for catching that one.

Here in Bastrop county, one Napoleon B.(bet it stood for Boneparte) Tanner contracted with he state of Texas to repair existing shotguns & rifles before delving into this follow-up contract for 'Enfield' rifles that turned out being describrf as Mississippi Rifles upon inspection. don't imagine Texas too put out as long as they shot! Tanner's armoury still stands, though a 8
'X10' structure, as does the old, two story Military Academy. Sadly, no actual survuvung N.B. Tanne piece is known to have survived, seeing his subcontractor did a pitiful with the barrels!

 

[Alden]

...The slow burning black powder charge will give a very rapid, hard push rather than the quick slap modern smokeless powder gives.

Except that he's going to use 3f powder in this .58 (because "that's what he has" no less)...

 

[rdillion]

What is your problem? :idunno:

 

[cowrustler]

rdillion, I think 3f works a little better in short barrels like the C&B. There may be a little more kick but there's also a little more velocity. I've tried both and like the 3f in my carbine.

 

[rdillion]

I used 3f in my 54ca Renegade. It's been a long time but I think the powder charge was a little less than with 2f. I never had any problems with excessive fouling with either. Interesting question though. I'll probably start with 50grs and just see how she shoots. I have some original Minnie bullets from the Civil War and to me it seems the skirts on the new ones are thicker than those on the originals.

 

[rdillion]

The rifle came late today. Very nice! Of course I have to work this weekend so it'll be next week before I get a chance to shoot it. The load data with the rifle listed a powder charge of 40grs so I guess I'll start there. :thumbsup: