Cooking over a Spit, ...

[gizamo]

Spent the day today at a Rendevous, not far from where I live. Pretty much the time period was the 1820's or earlier. All that set up had to have canvas tents in the main area, and everything had to look as period correct as possible. Folks come from far away to attend this event. And the reenactors are paying attention to the details. It was a fun and interesting day...

One thing that really was outstanding, was the cooking set-ups. Some of these folks are spending 7 days encamped. The wrought iron setup's over the spits made by blacksmith's ~ were amazing. I had no idea of how folks in this time period prepared the days meals. Of the 15 or so setups that I viewed, each one was different. All were fascinating. I ended up buying a good deal of blacksmith items that were laid out on the trade blankets. And ordered a set-up of my own for cooking over a fire spit. The one thing that I couldn't buy there was a Brazier. I'd never seen one before and could not believe how handy a item they would be. I'm searching online to find one that is of the same quality of the ones I saw in use today.

Any suggestions...

giz

 

[Birdman]

gizamo, hate to burst yer bubble but most of the iron work ya saw probably was not actually correct. Over the years at many events iron fire sets have become an accepted part of camp life but in actual historical sense never existed, at least the way they are presented today.They fit the bill for the old timey look n feel around a camp and nobody generally looks twice at them. I have plenty of iron and use it at vous myself but will leave most of it home at certain stricter events. There are some outstanding iron workers out there that make some awesome fire sets that are well worth every penny ya spend on them. Best advice I can give anyone starting out is to day trip to as many events as ya can and feel free to ask questions, some folks will growl a bit but most will be more then happy to talk with ya. Leave yer wallet at home for a spell and do your research on your equipment needs. That way you will save yourself a ton of money not buying neat things ya don't really need right now. As you progress in the hobby you will attain everything ya need and become more judicious in your spending.Different events have different requirements, vous being a bit more lax and easier for the beginer to attend. Look, listen, ask questions, then spend. When I go by myself everything goes into the back of my jeep with room to spare, when the wife goes I need a six by 12 trailer, got to keep "she who must be obeyed" happy n comfortable. Also always check out the blankets out in front of folks tents, they always have the best deals n ya can save a ton of money on most everything. just some thoughts YMHS Birdman

 

[gizamo]

Ok, points well taken. I will leave my money at home with my wife ~ just like she told me :grin:

But the Brazier was something I thought was historically correct for the time period. Seem to recall that the English had them at the time...

Am I all wet on this...once again? :hmm:

giz

 

[tg]

I have seen braziers refered to as copys of historical items but do not recall the time or place they refered to I believe it was AWI, but I am not much into cook ware as a sharp stick and a single small tin pan is about all I use, in order to cut down on weight, others with more know how on this topic will likely chime in.

 

Cook wear is a sore subject for a lot of people. There are a lot of blacksmiths out there who put out awesome sets of fire irons based on very little that is PC. Its also important to ask where as much as when. While braziers and such might be PC for the east during the 1820s and before, there is no documentation I know of for them in the west. A period correct cookset for western fur trappers is pretty simple, a sheet iron pot or two for each mess (1 gallon would be a small pot for the time and 5 would be more the norm), a sheet iron plate, a cup and your butcher knife. That's it. No expensive tripods with 47 s-hooks. Tripods would be wood collected in the field with wooden pothangers. Meat came in two types, boiled or broiled. The latter appears to have been done on wooden sticks driven into the ground at an angle hanging over the fire. It takes a little creativity to do it this way, but creativity is also lighter than iron, cheaper, and it packs smaller. :wink:

A trapper working out of the SW MIGHT pack along a set of iron skewers that can be used as a spit or hanger over a fire, but I've seen no real documentation for that other than Hanson's comments on the matter with no citations. The same goes for a comal which is a flat sheet iron griddle used by Hispanics to cook tortillas. To be honest, there is little detailed documentation on SW trappers. However Some like Ewing Young and Roubideau did hire New Mexican camp keepers who may have brought along such truck and a taste for tortillas. New Mexican trappers like Marcellino Baca ranged as far north as Blackfoot country. Camp-made tortillas cooked on a comal over juniper coals are a weakness of mine too. Especially when wrapped around thin slivers of fresh elk heart barely waved over the hot coals with some onion and hot green chiles to top it off. It is a post-kill ritual of mine and is muy bueno. So I can do without the fire irons but not the comal.

Sean

 

An example of making do without fire irons:
http://art.thewalters.org/viewwoa.aspx?id=11461

Sean

 

[Coot]

Birdman has given you good advice. Most of the elaborate iron cookfire tripods and horizontal bars and most braziers are not correct but are widely and generally accepted even at most juried events. Fresh cut green wood tripods would be more accurate but most events frown on cutting down the local woods! There are a number of vendors with braziers (some better made and some more correct than others). Braziers go way back in time but the most typical use in British North America would have been as part of an officer's camp furniture. That said, I portray a well off civilian in the 1750-1790 time frame and use a brazier. Never had it questioned & in a few cases, it was required due to temporary restrictions on open fires due to drought conditions. They are particularly handy if you need to get breakfast & then leave your camp. (Like to go shopping at Fort Frederick or to work the gate or range as a volunteer. They work well with charcoal (please no stinky easy starting pre soaked briquet junk - go with hardwood chunks & a stick or two of fatwood) just don't plan to cook a lot as a charge of charcoal doesn't last real long.

 

[ameling]

The original purpose of a brazier was to heat up or keep warm food that was cooked elsewhere. And to heat up water to wash with. But modern times and conditions have now shifted its purpose to becoming a primary cooking device.

Along with that shift in purpose has come ... adjustments ... to their styles/shapes/sizes - to make them more convenient to use to cook on. So a lot of the ones currently being offered have moved away from looking like those originals. They ... kind of ... look and work similar, but the differences are obvious when compared to pictures of the originals.

The simplest and cheapest brazier would be to get one from Crazy Crow Trading, or from a vendor who gets them wholesale from CC. Yes, they should be "tweaked" a bunch to make them better resemble the originals. But they will work and are "acceptable" at most events.

I do not remember the makers, but I have heard of several "blacksmiths" that are making them. One is up in Michigan, and one in South Dakota, and a couple out west in California and up in Oregon. I'm sure there are more. But some of them have gone to modern construction methods to make them quicker/cheaper/easier. Like using a modern electric welder to tack things together instead of rivets. And using modern angle iron for the corners. Little "details" that affect the final look.

But shipping on a brazier will often be a deciding factor in buying one. So finding one for sale at an event is a better way to go. Plus you get to see exactly what you are buying. And can ask questions at that time as well. But do your homework first. Too many people accept what a vendor tells them - without questioning any of it.

As to most of the other "campfire iron work", little of it is documentable, and can only really be called "historically insprired". It is great to look at and to cook with - just can't be documented. And the same can be said for most cast iron pans/kettles. Plus those cast iron "dutch ovens" only really started to show up in the mid 1800's, but most general use was after the Civil War.

A lot of ... Modern Rendezvous Culture ... has built up over the years. Bucking that "culture" to get back to documentable items is hard.

Just a few humble thoughts to share, and best used in conjunction with your own research.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[Many Klatch]

Giz, the cheapest easiest fire set is to bring your own wooden tripod to set over the fire. Tie the top together so it stays put. Dangle a length of chain to the fire and with two "S" hooks you have a way of adjusting a pot hanging above the fire. You can also do this with a piece of rope with an antler "j" hook at the bottom. Just wrap or unwrap the rope to adjust cooking height.

One trivet with medium length legs would be nice so things can sit in the firepit, near the fire on a level surface.

Now if it is a weeklong event and I am camping with my wife we bring more stuff. I do have an iron crane set that we use. It can make life easier.

We just picked up a fine collapsible brazier at Fort Frederick a couple of weeks ago. This Brazier was made by the Fort Augusta Woodworking. It is a lot bigger than a correct brazier so it will hold a lot more charcoal or it will work with really small wood. It also has a door on one side so you can add wood while cooking. It folds down and fits into a furnished wood box. This is really handy if you camp in places that don't allow digging firepits.

Most period cooking was in one pot. Stews, soups, chili, slumgullion, porridge and so on. Frying wasn't that common. If you cook in one pot then you don't need the big heavy grills and trivets that a lot of people haul to events.

If I had to do it over again and didn't want to have a basement full of unused ironware I'd concentrate on finding a good set of copper pots. Some "S" hooks, blacksmith made. One or two trivets, one with short legs and one with tall legs that can be set over a small fire.

You will need a pan or pot big enough to wash the other pans in. You will need one coffee pot. The rest is excess.

Many Klatch

 

[Waterman]

I'll second the opinion on the Ft Augusta brazier. Had mine for 2 years now. It is the greatest thing since sliced bread!!!

I can't say enough good about it.

Cheers, Bill

 

[blackhorse]

The Muzzleloading Forum is a great site with lots of knowledgeable people. DO I have a brazier and iron stuff, tripods, s hooks etc, yes, yes I do and I use them. Do I carry them on "treks", of course not. Did I carry them on horseback, no I didn't. Have I used irons at "juried events", yes I have. Have I used "natural sticks" while trekking, yes I have. Cooking over fire is pretty historically accurate, ever since Uhgg the caveman found a lightining struck tree. No documentation, but I can safely speculate that cavemen broiled their sabretooth tiger steaks..... cuz they had no pots or pans...

Bottom line, I love to cook over an open fire, whether Historically Accurate camping or modern camping. Do I use HA gear when I modern camp with the wife and dogs, yes I do.

As a very amateur blacksmith, I have made all of my camp irons(not the brazier though, I ain't that good). Have I managed to sell a few things, sure for grins...

 

[tg]

I think that around here every ML shooter that has a garage and a torch/welder makes "firesets"

 

[mark starr]

my Brazier is awkward and heavy. I have only used it once ,it is currently collecting rust in the shed. I carry a squirrel cooker , and a kettle,and a folding skillet

 

[BobKrohn]

An example of making do without fire irons:
http://art.thewalters.org/viewwoa.aspx?id=11461

Sean

Thank You for the link! Enjoyed looking thru the site. Here is another similar painting of meal prep.
http://art.thewalters.org/viewwoa.aspx?id=19020

 

[zimmerstutzen]

It is amazing how green wood can be substituted for the iron spits and fireaets. Yes I have an iron fire set for week long outings. But for weekend deals, I try to use fresh green maple, stripped of bark. I even use various lengths of inch thick maple as pot hooks, or to hold meat over the fire. Now at many get togethers, in arid areas, or where drought emergencies exist, it really isn't permitted to have open fires so braziers are the only way to deal with restrictions. Also imagine 4,500 folks at the NMLRA Eastern all stripping the local tress of branches for making spits that maybe last only three days of a week long camp out. Might not be period correct, but it saves on the environment and permits folks to come back in later years.

Now oddly, I have a huge 30 gallon cast iron kettle and an iron fire set that I use for regular summer and fall get togethers more than for re-enactments. Clam bakes, turkey roasts, etc. At the Eastern in 1994, I had folks parading past my camp every night to see what we had cooked. One night a whole 15 lb salmon, another we roast a goose on the spit, sometimes a turkey, even a small pig. At High Tor in NY, we steamed clams, crabs and corn. Match that with yams roasted in the coals and dutch oven corn bread or apple crisp. hot fruit biscuits, roast corn. One reason I love going to rendevous is the good eatin. Ever roast a small pumpkin filled with milk, spices, eggs and honey? Better than turkey day dessert. Almost None of that was period correct food. Althoughy not many of us could stomache the real stuff. Clabber, poached brains, deer sweet breads, raccoon, cat tail tubers, skunk cabbage, yecccchhhhhhh!