Corrugated Silos

[nkbj]

For a long time been suspecting that the Lee REAL was inspired by silos in dairy country made with corrugated metal.
Been diddling with REAL's off and on for years. Learning the good points and bad points of those mass produced molds. Comparing them to the hollow base buffalo bullets. Maxi's. Minies.

So I'd like to float something by you guys.
The biggest problem with REAL's seems to be that muzzleloading barrels are mostly in the ballpark for having bore and groove diameters that kinda work. Eh, but not necessarily and certainly not all barrels when the base is way under bore diameter. Looks like a buffalo bullet made it better with a hollow base. So, how about a silo with the whole exterior corrugated and with a hollow base?
In essence, a hollow base REAL. The base skirt thickness made to handle hunting load powder charges. The exterior tapered so that the front engraves on the rifling.
Various lengths / Weights?
Or an adjustable length mold with tapered front end section and straight cylindrical hollow based section?
Your thoughts?

The taper is exaggerated to make it obvious.

 

[BrownBear]

My experience is that it's a nonissue with REALs when I use a lubed felt base wad. But my further experience with Buffalo was that they needed the felt base wad too.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well I think the question is how much obturation do you think you will get from the skirt, as the idea of the REAL bullet is to self-swage the bullet onto the lands of the rifling when loading, and negate the need for base obturation. (Don't forget the lube channels) I think that some people don't get the performance from the REAL bullets that they expect, when in fact the only flaw is that LEE cannot predict the depth of the rifling for each person's barrel, nor the style (rounded button or cut). So you sometimes get gases escaping around the forward "collar" on the REAL as it's more of a pointed shape, and thus may not seal well against the barrel wall. This is done to make the swaging as easy as possible while still giving it some chance of actually working. So gases from the charge might just find openings and thus effect performance.

On the other hand..., simply adding some sort of wadding barrier, or perhaps inert material like 20 grains of cornmeal, might just improve the performance, without redesigning the bullet from the ground up.

Still, it might be fun to experiment. LEE will make you a mold from a scale drawing.

LD

PS I see that as I replied, so did Brown Bear, and he has experienced the same in real time (pardon the pun)

 

[nkbj]

That sums up the ideas behind the concept, a hunting bullet adaptable to a wider range of barrels.

Note concerning lube grooves, corrugated.

 

[Grenadier1758]

You can't get much more of a silo type concept than this minie ball mold from Lee Precision.
https://leeprecision.com/mold-500-354-m.html

 

[nkbj]

There you go.
Increase the diameter of the front band, reduce the cavity size and thicken up the skirt a little bit, put a little more length on the ogive and voila!
I've ruminated on this idea for a few years and thought maybe Lee would come out with it if somebody was to suggest it. It really isn't anything other than tweaking what they already make. They've got the separate concepts but just haven't put them together.

 

[hawkeye2]

"maybe Lee would come out with it if somebody was to suggest it"

I bellieve it would take a lot more than that for them to consider production. They have discontinued the .58 caliber "trash can" mini mold (identical to the one Grenadier 1758 linked to) even though it was fairly popular for years and had a reputation as being accurate. Lee makes custom molds and you can get one for about $300 if they are able and willing to machine the design.

https://leeprecision.com/custom-services/custom-bullet-molds/

https://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/MoldDesignAssistance.pdf

 

[Boomerang]

I think with a fully tapered side profile like your drawing, it would be difficult to load straight. I think you would need a straight section about the same length as the diameter to keep it square with the rifling.

 

[nkbj]

And you might be right. The REAL has some brilliant design for centering in the bore incorporated into it that you're not going have unless you have a REAL.
By the way, the sketch is not to scale, a visual aid to get across the concept. The taper could be no where near as pronounced. Also, the corrugations are not included in the sketch. Thinking about the way a REAL works, the outside diameters of the contact rings being at a taper with the rearmost smaller and the front largest (as well as having the sides of the grooves sloped in order to promote centering in the bore). The corrugations would have to serve much the same purposes but be smaller in dimensions to assist in the seal off of the rifling offered by the hollow base.
Lee's trash can minie design with corrugations on the contact surface really is just almost "there" as far as I'm concerned. A little lengthening of the nose profile, shorten the hollow base, thickening of the skirt, a little increase in the front band diameter and making it self centering like the front band on the REAL.

 

[Frank Ambruso]

I lube mine with spg, add a carboard wad on base and wrap with waxpaper so their less messy inside my bag or pocket.

 

[Rifleman1776]

muzzleloading barrels are mostly in the ballpark for having bore and groove diameters that kinda work. Eh, but not necessarily and certainly not all barrels

Possibly without knowing it, you have summed up the situation. Historically, barrels were not made to perzact-exact specifications. Different barrel makers, blacksmiths, etc. had their own tools, often made by themselves. Calibers produced varied from what the guy in the next town made. The Lee bullets probably (I've never used them) work well in some factory made modern ml rifles that are very close in specs one from another.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I played around with casting R.E.A.L.s for a while and they convinced me round balls were a pretty good projectile inside 120 yards.

Never could get them to shoot worth a darn.

 

[user 34300]

http://www.accuratemolds.com

He will make you anything you can dream up. The molds are top quality and ship fast. For a hollow base you will have to make or source a base pin. I just had him make me a 40 cal REAL type bullet for a cartridge barrel used on a ML target pistol. I also have several others from him. I can imagine any room for improvement.