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question...how long did the guys in the old west keep there pistols loaded? Im talking the cap and ball....how long is it safe to keep blackpowder loaded in lets say an 1860 army? it would probably be deadly for a gunslinger to keep his pistols unloaded till he needed them...they had to keep something loaded at all times....and did that do damage to the cylinder of the pistols, having bp in them full time?
 
Blackpowder keeps for a very long time. If you can keep moisture from entering the cylinder chambers, they can be loaded indefinitely.

I belive it was common practice to leave guns loaded. Even with single shot muzzleloaders, they were left loaded.
 
Wild Bill Hickok was known to discharge his brace of 51 Navies each morning, clean, and reload them. But, he was a professional gunman who favored his cap & ball revolvers over the cartridge revolvers of the post Civil War era and it was his trick to keep them from misfiring when needed.

I've never read of anybody else shooting, cleaning, and reloading daily in the Old West.

Black powder in it's loaded form isn't really corrosive, it's the residue after firing that attacks the steel of the barrel and cylinder chambers.

Period firearms still turn up with live loads that have been ready to go and still can discharge 100 or more years later.

Cheers,

David
 
The way I look at it is this: when a chamber is loaded with powder, wad, ball, and capped it is no different than a modern cartridge. It's just that the cylinder walls of each chamber are the walls of the cartridge--same difference. Just keep them air and as water tighht as possible and I think you can keep it loaded indefinatly.
 
Hi,
If your gun was clean and dry when loaded, your weakest link over time is your cap.
Many caps left in the open air, subject to handling, moisture, and contamination, often fail to fire.
As previously stated, many guns that have been loaded for a long time will still fire.
Many good gunslingers that "lived", used double barreled shotguns!
"Bollywood" has evolved the gunslinger that we think of today.
Old Ford
 
I have read accounts that in some of the lively towns and periods of the old west. Gamblers, bankers, honest concerned citizens and persons of quick and questionable reputations would carry modified firearms. You will find C&B revolvers with barrels cut so short that the loading levers have been removed. Colt and others made pocket revolvers and trapper models, circa 1848 & 1849, in .31 caliber that did not have a loading lever. Modified revolvers for special purposes were very common.

Some users found it more convenient to go to the local gunsmith or hardware store to have their weapon reloaded than to carry all the appurtenances and supplies for casting bullets and reloading of the firearm. It would stand to reason months, even years could pass before those firearms were discharged.

Joe
 
By the end of the Civil War, it was common to be able to buy paper revolver cartridges in boxes of six along with seven or eight caps.

Also after the Civil War, some southern states enacted gun control laws banning the ownership and carrying of any handgun other than an Army or Navy revolver, meaning full sized revolvers. They were however, selectively enforced laws whose true purpose was to disarm poor blacks as well as whites. Army and Navy revolvers were too expensive for most poor blacks and whites. Snub nosed revolvers without loading levers and in calibers smaller than .44 (Army) or .36 (Navy) were popular (as previously stated). Such laws were convenient to the elite who would rather have the poor disarmed.
 
Blackpowder ***** said:
question...how long did the guys in the old west keep there pistols loaded? Im talking the cap and ball....how long is it safe to keep blackpowder loaded in lets say an 1860 army? it would probably be deadly for a gunslinger to keep his pistols unloaded till he needed them...they had to keep something loaded at all times....and did that do damage to the cylinder of the pistols, having bp in them full time?

I would not worry about corrosion. But if I wanted to use it with confidence I would shoot, clean and reload at least twice a week unless kept inside in the drawer or shelf all the times.
Bill Hickok shot, cleaned, reloaded his Navys, one after the other, every morning.
People who did not take this precaution back in the day sometimes died as a result.
When it absolutely, positively has to work you want fresh powder and caps.
Dan
 
Norinco said:
By the end of the Civil War, it was common to be able to buy paper revolver cartridges in boxes of six along with seven or eight caps.

Also after the Civil War, some southern states enacted gun control laws banning the ownership and carrying of any handgun other than an Army or Navy revolver, meaning full sized revolvers. They were however, selectively enforced laws whose true purpose was to disarm poor blacks as well as whites. Army and Navy revolvers were too expensive for most poor blacks and whites. Snub nosed revolvers without loading levers and in calibers smaller than .44 (Army) or .36 (Navy) were popular (as previously stated). Such laws were convenient to the elite who would rather have the poor disarmed.
Is it possible to get the documentation for this?
 
Also after the Civil War, some southern states enacted gun control laws banning the ownership and carrying of any handgun other than an Army or Navy revolver, meaning full sized revolvers. They were however, selectively enforced laws whose true purpose was to disarm poor blacks as well as whites. Army and Navy revolvers were too expensive for most poor blacks and whites. Snub nosed revolvers without loading levers and in calibers smaller than .44 (Army) or .36 (Navy) were popular (as previously stated). Such laws were convenient to the elite who would rather have the poor disarmed.




I would love to know more about this if it is in fact true anyone have any info to back this up ??? Thanks jim
 
Sorry, it was in a brochure on the history of US gun control or something I read at the Silverado Gunshow back in November 2008, Saturday before the election.

No doubt about it, many gun control laws were racially oriented (originally). Whether or not the thing about Army and Navy revolvers I just mentioned is true, my guess is as good as the next guy.

EDIT: Found it! It is known colloquially as the Tennessee Army and Navy Law. Google that and you will come up with a lot of responses.

From the NRA-ILA website.
The Boxer gun ban, and bills like it, are updated versions of the 1870 Tennessee "Army and Navy" law. That law was enacted by a white supremacist legislature intending to disarm the black freedmen after the Civil War. The legislature barred the sale of any handguns except the "Army and Navy model." The ex-Confederate soldiers already had their high-quality "Army and Navy" guns. But cash-poor black freedmen could barely afford lower-cost, simpler firearms not of the "Army and Navy" quality.

Tennessee Firearms Association.
Prior to 1989, Tennessee was a limited “open carry” state. Tennessee’s open carry law was limited to “army or navy” pistols but only if such pistols were carried openly in the hand. The statute did not allow citizens to holster the weapons or to carry these types of pistols concealed. A person would have to become a special deputy or receive a special police commission in order carry a handgun that did not fit the “army or navy” designation. These commissions were also necessary if the individual wanted to carry the weapon concealed or holstered.
 
So it was for only one(1) state-Tennessee not the whole country or even the whole south. 1 state only.
 
Wild Bill Hickok was known to discharge his brace of 51 Navies each morning, clean, and reload them.

So in the course of a year he would load and fire at least 4368 charges? While I too have read of this I believe it is more a product of the Buntline press.
 
I believe North Carolina and Texas had some strict (comparatively) gun control laws as part of Jim Crowe.
 
StrawHat said:
Wild Bill Hickok was known to discharge his brace of 51 Navies each morning, clean, and reload them.

So in the course of a year he would load and fire at least 4368 charges? While I too have read of this I believe it is more a product of the Buntline press.

Thats how its come down and was written by people who knew him. So we do the math and think its not possible? What of the documentation?
I used to shoot my single 1860 carry gun about 3 times a week and did this for a couple of years. This was if I did not shoot it for fun. Where I might shoot more than one cylinder full.
Figure 104 weeks, 2.5 times a week, it was a full flute Army and could be carried with 6. So 6 times 260 comes to 780 rounds a year, if I had carried a pair I would likely have shot them both for the same reason. Fresh loads. I could easily have shot a 1000 rounds a year from this revolver and I had less motivation than Wild Bill.
I was also pretty damned proficient with it since I shot it a lot. Enough I had to make a new wedge for it at one time since it became loose with the original.
To me having carried a C&B a lot it makes perfect sense. In keeping my loads fresh I never remember having a miss-fire. I carried it in a shoulder holster under a jacket or coat so dampness was a concern especially in hot weather. Now if it were in a house in a drawer it would probably remain reliable for years. But carrying it every day? Can't trust to luck.

There is a book called "Blood Meridian", its fiction. However, there is a Journal that it is based on. I cannot at the moment recall the title having seen it at a friend's house last month. But in it the Journal keeper mentions that in real life Glanton killed a Texas Ranger with a knife when the Ranger's Navy went click while held against Glanton's forehead across a card table. It was a life changing event for the Ranger.

You are looking at it from economics or time/trouble. Hickok was looking at life and death. He had been in numerous shooting scrapes by this time, his last days in Deadwood, and knew that the guns HAD TO WORK. Misfires were common and got people killed as I am sure Wild Bill knew and not just with cap & ball guns.
The 1898 fight in which Soapy Smith and Reid were killed in Skagway comes to mind. Reid's cartridge revolver failed to fire and he died in agony 12 days later as a result. Soapy was luckier, he died on the spot but not by Reid. Maybe Reid had old ammo. Oil could kill the primer in CF cartridges or the powder in any of them. So even today changing ammo in a carry gun is a good idea. Remington in the 20th century used to advertise that their handgun ammo was "oil proof" in large letters on the front of the box.
So Bill's shooting did 2 things, it kept his hand in and kept his loads fresh.
Hickok was not killed because his firearms let him down. He could not afford to have a "click".

I once read an account of an outlaw who had taken some time off and was living in a cabin. He had brought along food, a case of ammo for his sixshooter, which he practiced with daily along with riding his horse a few miles aday so the horse was in shape.
Of course he might have been lying but it makes PERFECT sense. Flabby gun handling or a flabby horse could easily cost him his life. So he took "measures" to assure this would not be a factor. He didn't HAVE to do this. But he knew it was a very good idea perhaps learned the hard way at some time.

When you read things like this you must ask yourself "what would I do if MY life was at stake"?

Dan
 
Even today, handgun carriers (the good ones anyway) usually rotate their ammo. Centerfire pistol rounds are recommended for only two chamberings usually, since the bullets may get knocked loose. When one unloads his handgun at the end of the day, the round from the chamber gets set aside for use at the range later and a fresh round from the box is put in its place the next morning.
 
I think Wild Bill was saved when a 7th cav. tropper's c&b pistol went click in a bar fight.
 
So did all those people who got killed say "oh sh**" when their guns failed to fire and hesitated?

Because modern instructors teach those with revolvers to simply shoot again since the cylinder revolves to another shot.
 

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