Crescent Buttstock

[JHSA-President]

Two other threads have recently been talking about the issue of what kind of production guns are really out there. As a total newby to traditional muzzleloading, I felt constrained to buy the Traditions Deerhunter or Lyman Deerstalker because both were under 500 dollars {in case I did not like the hobby) and both had a buttstock like a modern firearm so I felt like I would know how to shoot it. - If I want to have other options though, I need to figure out the whole crescent buttstock. I see that some people just cover it with a sleeve...but it must have been designed that way for a reason. I've read about holding it in your bicep and firing across the body...not visualizing well. Anybody have pics/videos tutorials on how to shoot that way? That would open up a whole range of Hawken style guns for me to think about...

 

[nchawkeye]

As you mentioned, modern guns go on the shoulder while those with a crescent buttstock go more where the shoulder and arm meet, not as far down on the arm as the bicep...

 

[Eric Krewson]

I was at the range a couple of years ago and a guy was talking bout how his M/L was eating his shoulder up. I questioned him and found he had a crescent buttplate on his gun and was shouldering it like a modern rifle. I showed him how to properly shoulder it at the top of his bicep like described above, he was greatly relieved.

 

[JHSA-President]

Someone needs to post pics/videos of this...because it seems like you'd have to shoot across your body, like an archer? Feet and body 90 degrees to target, upper body gun upper bicep/where shoulder meets chest?

 

[user 48679]

You don't have to shoot across your body with a crescent BP, just turn the shoulder slightly offline with the butt seated at the shoulder junction (as noted above), and lean your head into the line of sight.

Remember, practice makes perfect.

 

[Nameless Hunter]

Someone needs to post pics/videos of this...because it seems like you'd have to shoot across your body, like an archer? Feet and body 90 degrees to target, upper body gun upper bicep/where shoulder meets chest?

There is...

 

[rafterob]

One benefit of a crescent buttplate is stabilization. The butt cannot slip up or down as it is locked onto your upper arm.

 

[necchi]

Well at least there's a video;
I think folks are jumping on that "across the body" part too much,, it's not that dramatic. They can be held comfortably with a "natural point of aim" being used like all rifles.
@JHSA-President , basically the lower pointy part fit's in your arm pit not "on" the shoulder. The design is actually a comfortable fit of human ergonomics.

Which one fit's you well? Different companies have different fit's.
That can be a quandary,, myself as example. The T/C Hawkin won't fit me for hoot! It ends up being a cheek slapper for me, if I spend a day shooting a T/C Hawkin it feels like a didn't block a punch from a left hook!
The Lyman Great plains fit's me fine as well as the CVA/Traditions models. But all that has to do with body types, my physic is that of a Brick with wider shoulders.
The best way to decide is to actually shoulder the rifles if possible. Hit some stores or gun shows and look for different models.

 

[dave951]

You don't have to shoot across your body with a crescent BP, just turn the shoulder slightly offline with the butt seated at the shoulder junction (as noted above), and lean your head into the line of sight.

Remember, practice makes perfect.

What he said∆∆∆∆∆

 

[waksupi]

Someone needs to post pics/videos of this...because it seems like you'd have to shoot across your body, like an archer? Feet and body 90 degrees to target, upper body gun upper bicep/where shoulder meets chest?

Place the butt above the bicep, and below the shoulder muscle.

 

[Eterry]

There are Cresent buttplates, and there are CRESENT BUTTPLATES!! My CVA Kentucky has a mild curve in the plate, and isn't hard to shoot if you find the pocket a couple inches from where a modern rifle should be.

My early Lancaster has a wide butt with about the same curve. I use the same position as the CVA.

My Hawkin has less curve and I can shoulder it pretty much like a modern arm.

The Soddy-Daisy has a smaller Cresent shape buttplate like a quarter moon, and must be held further down the arm and your body turned more to the target.

It takes a little experimentation on each type of rifle to find the perfect hold. I think that is true for modern arms as well as antiques and replicas.

 

[tenngun]

There is...

I was going to see if I could link him to that, he does a great vid

 

[tenngun]

You don't have to shoot across your body with a crescent BP, just turn the shoulder slightly offline with the butt seated at the shoulder junction (as noted above), and lean your head into the line of sight.

Remember, practice makes perfect.

It should fit above your biceps and missing the bulk of your deltoid. The toe in to your armpit.
Held across you body the gun natural point. It becomes very natural the pose used in archery for thousands of years.
I had an extreme curve on my first ml gun and learned the stance early. Since then will even shoot square butted rifles the same way.
This isn’t to argue the point. You said practice makes perfect, and this the truth. Get comfortable and stay the same, practice till it’s automatic.

 

[FlintRock]

I shoot a Pedersoli RM hawken, I had read horror stories about crescent butt plates prior to buying one and I was really hesitant to use it.
Then I shot it and instantly realised that you must be an absolute peanut to hold it wrong and get booted. Trying to position it in the way you would a normal stock is impractical and not comfortable. Off the bench and off hand is no issue whatsoever. I love them now.

 

[Dale Lilly]

I learned to shoot when I was eight; my dad taught me. I have always shot across my body [45 degrees?] with modern or crescent butt plates. I shot expert in the military. It is very natural [and you make a bit smaller target ]. Polecat

 

[user 49399]

I learned to shoot when I was eight; my dad taught me. I have always shot across my body [45 degrees?] with modern or crescent butt plates. I shot expert in the military. It is very natural [and you make a bit smaller target ]. Polecat

Me too.

 

[Malamute]

Ill be the dissenting opinion, I think theres a very good reason crescent butts fell from favor.

I started out loving them, Cool! Old style!....over time I came to realize that the crescent often positioned the comb in an uncomfortable place, generally too low, coupled with too much drop anyway, and made the gun less pleasant and slower to throw up to the shoulder and make fast shots on running game and such. Compared to the so-called shotgun butt, the crescent was more of a PIA than anything, and was part of the reason I got out of muzzle loaders for a while. I also didnt take well to the "I have to shoulder one type gun one way and everything else another way". It wasnt a natural feel to me.

My conclusion was it was mainly an American fad or style that long outlived its supposed purpose, the English figured out the stock thing LONG before the American gunmakers (rifle makers) did. Over time I realized one could have a traditionally styled gun with a decently shaped butt, rather than a modern looking gun, which didnt really appeal to me. The shotgun butt or English Sporting style suddenly made sense, as did those special order shotgun butts on old Winchester unmentionables from guys like TR. Great looks, actual good stock design, fast and easy handling, made of win. Some crescent butts werent as bad as others, but all were inferior in handling to a shotgun or English Sporting type butt to me. YMMV of course.

Yes, being able to adapt to a crescent can open up more types of guns for you to consider. If you want one, because old style, great, but I cant find any advantage whatsoever compared to better designs.

Old, very classy, and well designed.

 

[TFoley]

Me too.

I've been rifle-shooting since age six - next week I'll be seventy-six. Like plucky ol' Banjoman, I've never had a problem shooting any kind of rifle, and that included two years in the TA infantry with the SLR [British version of the FAL], and then another twenty years shooting it as a secondary service weapon and in competition until it was replaced. I only have one crescent-stocked rifle right now - I can't show it as it shoots a self-contained charge that loads from the back. However, it has a wall, and it is high, if that gives you any clue

 

[tenngun]

Ill be the dissenting opinion, I think theres a very good reason crescent butts fell from favor.

I started out loving them, Cool! Old style!....over time I came to realize that the crescent often positioned the comb in an uncomfortable place, generally too low, coupled with too much drop anyway, and made the gun less pleasant and slower to throw up to the shoulder and make fast shots on running game and such. Compared to the so-called shotgun butt, the crescent was more of a PIA than anything, and was part of the reason I got out of muzzle loaders for a while. I also didnt take well to the "I have to shoulder one type gun one way and everything else another way". It wasnt a natural feel to me.

My conclusion was it was mainly an American fad or style that long outlived its supposed purpose, the English figured out the stock thing LONG before the American gunmakers (rifle makers) did. Over time I realized one could have a traditionally styled gun with a decently shaped butt, rather than a modern looking gun, which didnt really appeal to me. The shotgun butt or English Sporting style suddenly made sense, as did those special order shotgun butts on old Winchester unmentionables from guys like TR. Great looks, actual good stock design, fast and easy handling, made of win. Some crescent butts werent as bad as others, but all were inferior in handling to a shotgun or English Sporting type butt to me. YMMV of course.

Yes, being able to adapt to a crescent can open up more types of guns for you to consider. If you want one, because old style, great, but I cant find any advantage whatsoever compared to better designs.

Old, very classy, and well designed.
View attachment 124456

I don’t think it was an American fad, these are antique German rifles
A large flat butt absorbs recoil better. It makes lots of sense for wing shooting. And the development of African cape rifles influenced stock design on smaller caliber guns
Hunting was a gentleman’s sport. And he wanted to be good, so he leaned a hold he could transfer if he was hunting grouse or elephant. And although America has a rich shooting history many Americans never picked up a gun till the WBTS, Spanish America and WW one. I THINK this would contribute to a more military style hold and subsequent flat butt

 

[Red Owl]

Does the recoil hurt your upper arm if you fire it that way? Also, maybe it also explains cast built into stocks.