Crud on Lead What?

[ike]

I had to get a Lee melting pot as my Coleman stove quit on me. Pot works fine. I put lead in the pot and flux it skim off the crud and start casting. After a time the top of the molten lead starts to have a black crud on it and my ladle is all crusted with it. I have to take my wood hammer that I use to cut spruce and tap the ladle to clean it off. After it is cooled the material is heavy. The color is dark gray to black and looks like small dirt clods. It is firm enough that you cannot break it up with your fingers.

The lead I used was telephone Co lead connection sleeves. It is very soft but cannot say it was pure. When I cast with the Coleman stove as a heat source and a cast lead pot I didn't have this issue.
Can anyone explain what is happening? Thanks

 

[mooman76]

Your lead is oxidizing. Turn the heat down some. The hotter the lead, the more/faster it will oxidize.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Just sounds like normal dross to me....I always clean the lead before it goes in my pot by pre-melting and pouring it into ingots. It is possible that there is a manufacturing coating or lubricant on the lead. same goes for the new pot.

 

[TNGhost]

Doesn't sound like oxidation, usually that shows up as purplish or yellowish thin skim on the top or a yellowish powder. Could be you just need to flux and clean more, or it could be some type of contaminant, or some component of their alloy.

I had some cable sheathing I got at one time that seemed to have some sticky, waxy, greasy, oily protectant on it. Man was it tough to get cleaned out :cursing: . Its been a while back, but seems to me I had to turn the heat up quite high to get it all burnt off/cleaned out.

As an aside, a thermometer, like Lyman has, can give you a lot of clues as to what's going on with your melt and what's in it.

Love those Lee pots, have three, been using them for years. :thumbsup:

 

[nhmoose]

Always melt found lead in a different pot then flux and skim all the junk out of it, if it has a bottom pour.

If you are using the LEE pot without the bottom pour you are not fluxing and cleaning the lead enough. Flux with some wax or sawdust stir the pot scooping it into the lead, then scrape the sides of the pot and bottom with a spoon or something the dirt will come to the surface skim that off before trying to ladle lead into the mold.

Clean lead will pour nice and not leave junk in the ball or sprue.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Lee pots are made of an iron alloy which will form a black "crud" in contact with hot lead. A new pot will form more for a while, just skim it off, and don't worry about it. Just make sure the black crud doesn't get into the "valve" at the bottom. Which is why I always keep my bottom tapping pot at least 1/2 full, and often "scrape" the sides with a thin steel scraper.Also when done make sure you hang a weight from the handle otherwise the rod will tend to "float up" as the lead cools and the next time you start up the pot it will be held partially open annd you will get a lot of lead spill. :hmm:

 

[larry wv]

Good advice on the handle weight. Thanks.

Larry

 

[necchi]

Lee pots are made of an iron alloy which will form a black "crud" in contact with hot lead. A new pot will form more for a while,,

Yup, that's it. I've got the little 10# Lee dipping pot and it never really did stop, I found if I run it pretty darn hot it's better but still not as nice as my cast iron pot on the Coleman stove.
They make rebuild kits for Coleman stoves and/or they can be cleaned up,, http://www.oldtowncoleman.com/tech/re2stovea.htm

 

[Rifleman1776]

Your lead is oxidizing. Turn the heat down some. The hotter the lead, the more/faster it will oxidize.

Don't agree. :shake:
Lead is not hot enough if it stick to ladle. Ladle is not hot enough either.
But, don't fret the crud or worry about exactly what it is. For practical purposes, crud is crud. Turn up yer heat, skim crud and keep casting.

 

[Cpl. Ashencheeks]

Are you casting in cold weather?

The only reason I ask is because you say that the lead is sticking to your ladle.

The last time I cast it was just above freezing temperature so keeping my molds hot enough for long enough was not all that easy.

I also found a single 00 shot ball which floated to the top of my pot, so I fished it out, put in more beeswax and spooned out dross for a little longer, then continued on with casting.

I had also had a previous mix of hard lead in the pot for modern rounds which was emptied out of the pot sometime back, before placing in ingots of b5 soft lead with old rounds for newly cast black powder ammo.

I don't think I had to dross all that much though.

 

[TNGhost]

Good advice on the handle weight. Thanks.

Larry

+100 on that. Like I said above I have had 3 for a while, and had never seen or heard of this.(And yes, I have lost attention while the pot's getting up to speed, and ended up with a large puddle of lead on my work bench :redface: more than once.) Now let's see, where can I get something to use as a weight :hmm:

To the OP, if your melt is sticking to the ladle, you're just not running hot enough. I know a lot has been said about going too hot, oxidation, fumes, losing tin, etc. :yakyak:, but I have found that to be way overstated.

As far as the black gunk from the metal the pot is made of, I have a 20 and two 10s, all Lee, all bottom pours, and have never experienced that. Once I flux and skim well, I am good to go until the pot gets down to where I add more lead. YMMV

 

[mooman76]

Attach a pair of vise grips to the handle while you use it. Quick and easy.

 

[Cowboy]

He is using a ladle and is not using a bottom pour pot. With a bottom pour pot, once you flux and scrape the sides and bottom of the pot, all the inpurities and dross floats to the top and you have pure lead underneath to fill your molds. You really don't have to skim the dross floating on the top. With a ladle, after you flux and skim off the impurities and dross off the top, a film will still form which is no big deal. Every time I dip with my ladle I skim the thin film to one side and keep dipping and skim the build up to one side when necessary. The key that works for me is that I keep my mold, ladle, and lead hot enough. I cast with my lead at around 800 degrees. That seems to be the perfect temp. that works the best for me. Keep a good casting rhythm going and make alot of balls! Respectfully, cowboys1062.

 

[nwtradegun]

antimony or tin to harden lead. from old lyman loading manual 45 yrs. ago

 

[Drue Rice]

antimony or tin to harden lead. from old lyman loading manual 45 yrs. ago

This is true, using an unknown lead source,(wheel weights are the most common), the antimony and tin will separate from the lead when the temp is high enough and long enough.

But that separation is ok if you are wanting to use the softest lead possible for muzzle loading firearms, not so much when wanting hardness to stand up to high pressures with smokeless loads at high velocities.

 

[necchi]

:bull:
No amount of heat alone, skimming and/or drosing will remove Tin or Antimony from a lead alloy.
Once it's in there, it's in there until it's removed using multi million dollar machines.
There is no process that can be done by a home caster to make pure lead out of alloyed wheel weights or other lead alloys.

 

[Idaho Ron]

:bull:
No amount of heat alone, skimming and/or drosing will remove Tin or Antimony from a lead alloy.
Once it's in there, it's in there until it's removed using multi million dollar machines.
There is no process that can be done by a home caster to make pure lead out of alloyed wheel weights or other lead alloys.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Bon Sauvage]

Necchi speaks true.

 

[nhmoose]

I just use hard stuff for modern guns and smoothbore ML's, hard doesn't affect smoothies and the old African hunters liked hard balls in theirs as it penetrates better.

A .620 ball and up does not need expansion at all.

 

[Scota4570]

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Lyma...=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=22753286&rid=20

I could not cast decent bullets without a thermometer. It is a must have item.