"Crude" Conversions?

[Smokey Plainsman]

Hi, all.

I recall reading, though amn't so sure as to where, of how some flintlocks were converted to percussion.

I believe what was done was they simply threaded a nipple drum into the touch hole, removed the frizzen (wow, autocorrect says frizzen is not a word) and they'd simple put a bit of metal in the flint jaws to strike the cap with.

Seems a bit crude but like it'd work okay. Trouble is I can't ever recall seeing a picture or more information on this. Seems like it would be really easy to do, maybe in one's garage to a used modern gun...

Anyone heard of this? Thoughts?

 

[hawkeye2]

Yes that was one of many ways to convert a flintlock and not uncommon. Crude might not be the best adjective in this case as it implies poor workmanship and low grade materials. Quick, easy and inexpensive may be better as the quality of this type conversion could be be good and serviceable. This might be done to a gun that didn't warrant a more expensive conversion or possibly the owner couldn't afford more.

 

[tenngun]

Some times the drum was braised on, the pan smoothed off and the bolster just filed some what poorly to fit. Drums were some times very crude.

 

[Wes/Tex]

There are several methods of converting flintlock to percussion. Just using military muskets as an example , there are three basic types used by the armories and private contractors.

1. "French Style" conversion or "drum & nipple" conversion. All external lock parts were removed and threaded holes plugged; flash pan cut off and ground flush and a drum type bolster holding a nipple threaded into the touch hole. This was the earliest method from the early 1850's and now thought to be done by private contractors.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/mgm-conte...882_02_new_confederate_items_at_www_b_640.jpg

2. "Belgian Alteration" or "cone type", also from early 1850's. All external lock partsremoved from lock plate and holes plugged; pan ground flushand small existing cavity in pan filled with brass to give squared off lock profile. Touch hole plugged and new nipple screwed into threaded receptacle on barrel top but off set to lock side. These are distinctively arsenal work with military hammer. Records indicate this is the only type done by the National Armories.
http://www.relicman.com/weapons/imageweapon/W0704C.J3.

3."Bolster Conversion" is the final type used in later 1850's through the early Civil War years and all thought to be done by private contractors. The lock was striped of external parts and plugged as above with two known methods of alteration.
(a) bolster merely brazed over touch hole of original flint barrel.
(b) breech of barrel cut off and entirely new breech having pre-formed bolster made integral by screwing into barrel.
https://skinnerinc-res.cloudinary..../860207/conversion-1816-percussion-musket.jpg

Most civilian styles were similar though a bit more refined. The drum and nipple method was probably most commonly found in civilian applications.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

That's why I used quotation marks.

I am extremely sorry if I offended anyone, I know they are not really "crude" in the unskilled meaning. I apologize.

 

[M. De Land]

It is important when doing these conversions to fit the bottom of the drum against a hemisphere cut out in the pan lock plate area to support the drum thread against fatigue from hammer blow inertia.

 

[Grimord]

Another type of conversion was the mule ear lock. The nipple was threaded into the existing touch-hole.

 

[hawkeye2]

I don't believe that anyone was offended and certainly no need to apologize. :v Its just that I see the word crude applied often to workmanship that probably would be better described as simple, basic or functional (or all the preceding). I believe we are so accustomed, in this machine age, to seeing perfect fits and highly finished items when either may not have been necessary that we look down on solutions that did what was required adequately. To me crude would be done with a 4 pound hammer, a 1" cold chisel and a worn out Stilson wrench by the light of a campfire. :grin:

 

[coloradoclyde]

The neatest one I saw was a nipple installed at the base of the frizzen or replacing the frizzen and a piece of metal in the jaws...Probably the simplest I've seen.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Here is one that requires no modification

 

[Grenadier1758]

I have a nice squirrel rifle that was made as a flint to percussion conversion. The frizzen was removed, the pan was cut off and the lock plate notched for the drum. Then a plug was installed in place of the flint to strike the nipple. Since the lock was an L&R Manton lock, it was a simple task to convert back to a flintlock.

I know, we need pictures.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Here is one where a nipple was simply installed in the top of the barrel and a new hammer installed.

similar...

 

[coloradoclyde]

And then there is this... :shocked2:

 

[Wes/Tex]

I recall seeing the metal piece locked in the jaws of a flint hammer to act as a impact source for a percussion drum conversion. I've looked all over but can't find a photo and just don't recall a specific name for the type or it's inventor to Google up for better description or photo. Sorry. Maybe someone here has a better memory. :wink:

 

[coloradoclyde]

I can't find my picture of the nipple mounted in the frizzen either.... :cursing:


Good news though....Photobucket let me back into my account.

 

[54ball]

Some " conversions" never were flint.

Many flint locks were modified to percussion before they were put on a gun.
Many companies simply assembled flint lock plates as percussion locks.
Just because a gun has a converted lock does not mean it was built as a flintlock.
It is possible to convert a always percussion lock to flint. Sometimes you will see this....engraving under the frizzen spring.

Many Early percussion guns (and some not so early) have been converted "back" to flint that were built as percussion.

I find that early percussion rifles and guns to be the most interesting of all firearms.

 

[Grenadier1758]

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That's obviously (I hope) not the stock that I pulled the lock from. You can see the conversion method quite nicely. It functions very well too.

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[excess650]

There was a "pill lock" before the "tube lock" or percussion cap. The one and only that I've seen was a Jacob Dickert rifle dated 1807 or so.

 

[mooman76]

I picked up a really old rifle a few years back. It is in fairly good shape for the age. I don't know if it was originally a flintlock or not but the stock does show signs that it has had work done on it over the years. It's basically a hardware store gun. The powder drum is six sided and looks like someone filed it by hand to get it that shape and crudely done. Still shoots excellent. It clover leafed at 25y first time out. I'd like to replace the drum some day and went as far as to buy replacements but I'd really like one that matches the gun and doesn't look so modern.

 

[Feltwad]

There was a "pill lock" before the "tube lock" or percussion cap. The one and only that I've seen was a Jacob Dickert rifle dated 1807 or so.

The Scent bottle lock,pill lock, patch lock, tube lock , and the early percussion cap which was made of iron date from 1800 to 1815 what they all had in common was they all used fultimate compound invented by Forsythe who sued anybody who used this compound in any of their ignitions .One of the first class gun makers to be hit by this ban was Joseph Manton who finally ended bankrupt.
Feltwad