Curlys .72 caliber north west trade gun

[vintovka]

Anyone else remember him and his association with Bill Wescombe??

 

[Coinneach]

Here it is my Lefty 20 gauge (.62 cal) North Star Trade gun Flinter, purchased as a kit way back in 1986.
The Lock is a large LH Siler with a Sitting Fox stamped on the plate, I tuned it up with judicious wet & dry paper on all the wearing surfaces and its always been a joy to shoot.

IMHO the Lock inletting was a tad rough, but that's what I had to work around, you'll notice a small rough finished piece taken out of the Lock moulding just forward of the Frizzen, I had to do that to free up the movement of the Frizzen because the Lock was set in deep; when I took the photos today I was reminded to finish it off properly. In all the years I've never got around to doing it.

Stock is Tung oil hand rubbed, Brass tacks I did as some symbolism; I fitted the forward period Sling swivel the rear end of a sling being able to be tied to the trigger guard.

 

[beardedhorse]

Coinneach, did Curly ever give you any specifics on left hand trade guns in the 1800's? My .72 or 12 gauge is left handed but will re stock and any historic examples would be helpful for the rebuild. 120 grains of FFg under a .715 round ball gave me best hunting accuracy and knock down but it kills on both ends.

 

[Coinneach]

Coinneach, did Curly ever give you any specifics on left hand trade guns in the 1800's? My .72 or 12 gauge is left handed but will re stock and any historic examples would be helpful for the rebuild. 120 grains of FFg under a .715 round ball gave me best hunting accuracy and knock down but it kills on both ends.

Not that I can recall, but when I first contacted him he was very convincing that there were LH Tade guns made, I have a Book somewhere here on Trade Gun history and I think there was some reference in that.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I believe in Hamilton's book, there is mention of a left handed trade gun found as part of burial goods fond during an archeological dig.

 

[Grenadier1758]

In the book, "Colonial Frontier Guns" by T. M. Hamilton, he documents a Left Hand Fusil Fin in Figure 33, Page 60 and 61. The left hand fusil fin was found in a grave on the Louisiana State Penal Farm at Angola. He documents the other articles were found with many other burial objects.

The parts were quite decomposed but the bore may have been 0.625". The lock was unbridled. The side plate was brass along with the rampipes.

Hamilton is of the opinion that "this is the only left-handed 18th Century gun to be recovered archaeologically."

Yup, found my earlier post.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I don't own a Curly Gostomski gun, but I did get a 20 gauge Barnett-style Northwest gun from Matt Denison of North Star West about nine years ago. It's one of my favorite guns. It was a sad day when North Star West closed its doors.

Yes, Matt Dennison sold Northstar West Last year, due to health reasons. Rick Tabor, out of Lebanon, Oregon, and Mike Keller bought all the excess parts. Rick is currently waiting on stocks, and is going to be building 36" x .62 caliber guns soon.

This is good news! Even if the gun is only built in one gauge and barrel length, but to NSW's old quality standards, it will fill a void in the marketplace.

Regarding the big-bore Northwest guns built by Curly Gostomski, I've run across a couple of references on the internet in unexpected places. River Junction Trade Company had one for sale a while back:



They described it as .72 caliber, with a 30" barrel. It has one of the Pedersoli LOTT locks. Also note that stubby little trigger, which makes me think this must have been a very early gun from Mr. Gostomski's production. Proper Northwest guns have really long triggers, which is why they have such big triggerguards. Mr. Gostomski got the guard right, but he probably didn't think about the size of the trigger until after this gun was finished. This gun was sold some time back, but River Junction still has it archived on their website. They show a lot more photos and provide a short written description: Curly Gostomski Northwest Trade Gun

The other one is on The Midland Agarian blogspot. This peculiar but interesting site has blog posts concerning country life in western Pennsylvania. The fellow posts about farming, domestic animals, shooting, food, music, and religion. I think the website has been inactive for a number of years, but the old blogs are still there, and one of the posts described getting a trade musket off GunBroker. It was apparently in pretty bad shape. While I don't think the writer is primarily a muzzleloading shooter, he seems pretty handy and well-informed about guns in general, and he briefly went through the tedious process of getting this gun back in shape. He said it is a .75 caliber smoothbore, and I would estimate about a 34" barrel, based on the photo:



Most of his blog post was about the history of trade guns in North America, without much said about this specific musket. He never did identify this gun as one of Curly's, and he never even mentioned Mr. Gostomski. However, it appears to have all the earmarks of an early Gostomski gun, including the LOTT lock:

he described the 12 bore as a Leman (not lemon !)

I always enjoy @Rudyard 's posts! Henry Leman did in fact make some Northwest guns in the late 1850's that were of larger bore than normal, and this may be what Mr. Gostomski had in mind when he described his 12-bore Northwest guns as "Lemans." Most Northwest guns were nominally 24 gauge, but by actual measurement, surviving guns seem typically around .60 caliber. However, starting in 1856, the US Government began placing annual orders to Henry Leman for Northwest guns in .70 caliber and .65 caliber, in addition to the more common .60 caliber. Leman wrote to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs in 1856 indicating he could fill the orders with no problem, but he was concerned that the Indians "...may object on account of their [large] bore..." (see "Henry E. Leman, Riflemaker," by Charles Hanson, in the American Society of Arms Collectors Bulletin 51: 12-20).

Anyway, North Star West produced some really nice guns, first under Curly Gostomski and later under Matt Denison. I do sincerely hope Rick Tabor will bring these fine guns back.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Rawhide67]

Yes, Matt Dennison sold Northstar West Last year, due to health reasons. Rick Tabor, out of Lebanon, Oregon, and Mike Keller bought all the excess parts. Rick is currently waiting on stocks, and is going to be building 36" x .62 caliber guns soon.

That's funny, I have a Mike Keller gun too. He does beautiful work.

 

[Rudyard]

I’m intrigued by that statement, I met Curly and I live in NSW.

You live in New South Wales the other one was for North Star West . But me thinks you are joshing . Regards Rudyard

 

[Colonial Boy]

You live in New South Wales the other one was for North Star West . But me thinks you are joshing . Regards Rudyard

Right, Rudyard, tongue in cheek
Reading back over the posts, my Northwest gun was made by Peter Hawkey and has a Lott lock, but Peter worked the lock over and it has been very reliable for many years.
Was just going to post a picture of it but the one that was in a thread from way back has disappeared and I’m away in Queensland at the moment.

 

[Coinneach]

Right, Rudyard, tongue in cheek
Reading back over the posts, my Northwest gun was made by Peter Hawkey and has a Lott lock, but Peter worked the lock over and it has been very reliable for many years.
Was just going to post a picture of it but the one that was in a thread from way back has disappeared and I’m away in Queensland at the moment.

Good to read the Hawkey is still with us, are you aware that North West Trade Guns have "Pups" ?

 

[Colonial Boy]

Pups ?

 

[Rudyard]

Pups ?

Yes I didn't see any pups connection either . I remember the Washington State Belview 'Burnett' copy from Frank Strait. I made a few trade guns in UK as 20 bore & his and other makers barrels got made into Shotguns single flint half stock some used Bader Barrels of 12 bore taper round ,others I used Hawkins Arms NZ barrels same configuration most all had the Nocks patent breaches often recessed plugs .Most used Cawnpore India made locks . Some wanted pistol hand, some no rod' Pidgeon 'guns , some full stocked . Oddly no one complained of the excessive recoil many have mentioned on these posts . Two at least shot for the English shotgunners MLAIC champs at Quantico Va .Some crossed back over the pond & I bought back SH number 37 1980 with its NZ made brl & added a 58 rifled barrel same maker its too heavy for me these days but I did carry it all over the local mountains a few years since, Hills got steeper ,probably the Global warming ? .
Regards Rudyard

 

[springfield art]

I don't own a Curly Gostomski gun, but I did get a 20 gauge Barnett-style Northwest gun from Matt Denison of North Star West about nine years ago. It's one of my favorite guns. It was a sad day when North Star West closed its doors.


This is good news! Even if the gun is only built in one gauge and barrel length, but to NSW's old quality standards, it will fill a void in the marketplace.

Regarding the big-bore Northwest guns built by Curly Gostomski, I've run across a couple of references on the internet in unexpected places. River Junction Trade Company had one for sale a while back:

View attachment 186615

They described it as .72 caliber, with a 30" barrel. It has one of the Pedersoli LOTT locks. Also note that stubby little trigger, which makes me think this must have been a very early gun from Mr. Gostomski's production. Proper Northwest guns have really long triggers, which is why they have such big triggerguards. Mr. Gostomski got the guard right, but he probably didn't think about the size of the trigger until after this gun was finished. This gun was sold some time back, but River Junction still has it archived on their website. They show a lot more photos and provide a short written description: Curly Gostomski Northwest Trade Gun

The other one is on The Midland Agarian blogspot. This peculiar but interesting site has blog posts concerning country life in western Pennsylvania. The fellow posts about farming, domestic animals, shooting, food, music, and religion. I think the website has been inactive for a number of years, but the old blogs are still there, and one of the posts described getting a trade musket off GunBroker. It was apparently in pretty bad shape. While I don't think the writer is primarily a muzzleloading shooter, he seems pretty handy and well-informed about guns in general, and he briefly went through the tedious process of getting this gun back in shape. He said it is a .75 caliber smoothbore, and I would estimate about a 34" barrel, based on the photo:

View attachment 186621

Most of his blog post was about the history of trade guns in North America, without much said about this specific musket. He never did identify this gun as one of Curly's, and he never even mentioned Mr. Gostomski. However, it appears to have all the earmarks of an early Gostomski gun, including the LOTT lock:

View attachment 186625



I always enjoy @Rudyard 's posts! Henry Leman did in fact make some Northwest guns in the late 1850's that were of larger bore than normal, and this may be what Mr. Gostomski had in mind when he described his 12-bore Northwest guns as "Lemans." Most Northwest guns were nominally 24 gauge, but by actual measurement, surviving guns seem typically around .60 caliber. However, starting in 1856, the US Government began placing annual orders to Henry Leman for Northwest guns in .70 caliber and .65 caliber, in addition to the more common .60 caliber. Leman wrote to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs in 1856 indicating he could fill the orders with no problem, but he was concerned that the Indians "...may object on account of their [large] bore..." (see "Henry E. Leman, Riflemaker," by Charles Hanson, in the American Society of Arms Collectors Bulletin 51: 12-20).

Anyway, North Star West produced some really nice guns, first under Curly Gostomski and later under Matt Denison. I do sincerely hope Rick Tabor will bring these fine guns back.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

Great photo; that's 'my' lock. all right!

 

[springfield art]

Great photo; that's 'my' lock. all right!

Yes, my trigger is very long, and feels "right" using two fingers! It just 'invites' that practice. Thanks for your informative post! Is this a great site, or what?

 

[springfield art]

Henry Deringer made 'Trades' under gov't. contract, I see in my copy of 'For Trade & Treaty'. I've mentioned here before that I'm not far from the burial place of Henry Deringer in Phila's. Laurel Hill Cemetery, resting place of many famous people from history, including US and Confed. Civil War personages. Henry's plot is marked on the hand-out maps at the cemetery office, it's a 'family plot' and does not have a big percussion pistol on a gravestone, such as like we muzzleloader-types would want to see! It's really something that almost two centuries after his birth, his name, although with an extra "r" lives on in story.

 

[springfield art]

Good to read the Hawkey is still with us, are you aware that North West Trade Guns have "Pups" ?

If Hawkey made Hawkin's they'd be Hawkey Hawkins, just sayin'

 

[Coinneach]

If Hawkey made Hawkin's they'd be Hawkey Hawkins, just sayin'

Ol Pete Hawkey is a quietly amazing Aussie bloke, a purist craftsman who's work has always been total perfection.
Anything he produces is a lifetime collectible believe me.

 

[springfield art]

Ol Pete Hawkey is a quietly amazing Aussie bloke, a purist craftsman who's work has always been total perfection.
Anything he produces is a lifetime collectible believe me.

Sounds like a true old-time artisan such as they don't make many of anymore!

 

[Rudyard]

Sounds like a true old-time artisan such as they don't make many of anymore!

No they dont' you just get cack handed bods like that Rudyard fellow .Mulga Bill from Eaglehawks got nothing on him.

Viz "I'm good all round at everything as every body knows, Although Ime not the one to talk ,- I hate a man that blows But Rideing is my special gift my cheifest sole delight , Just ask wild duck can it swim a wild cat can it fight .Thers nothing clothed in hair or hide or build of flesh or steel .there,s nothing jumps or walks or runs, on axle hoof or wheel, But what ile sit while hide will hold and girths and straps are tight . Ile ride this ere two wheeled concern right strait away at sight".

When apon off he goes into all sorts of grief ,as any one who ever road a Penny Farthing can attest , He ended up in the Creek. I ended up with a particulary sore rectum after the first 20 miles Every one waves to you but you dernt wave back or your in the fecculant matter . I just threw that snippet in ,slightly of topic but I know Coinreach would enjoy it .I regret I never met Mr Hawkey .
Regards Rudyard