Current quality of the Italian makers

[Old-Duckman]

A while ago I posted about my recent purchase of a Pietta handgun from Midway, $234 (Navy-ish, .44 cal.). I had a good bit of their mess to clean up. I got it all sorted out, made a grip out of red gum eucalyptus (original is plastic). polished the brass to a 400 grit finish. Haven't shot it yet but am really happy with how it turned out. It has a 2022 date stamp and I have read on this forum how the Italian gun makers quality has declined since the scamdemic.

So yesterday I picked up a Uberti unmentionable from my dealer, suffice it to say SAA-9, paid $625 from Bud's. This handgun is outstanding. Near flawless finish, perfectly checkered grip, crisp trigger with no perceptible creep (does have some over travel) build date 2022.

So I don't consider this a Uberti-Pietta quality difference but what? Is it just a better quality because of the price point difference or does Uberti treat center fire revolvers different than BP revolvers?

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[Uncle Miltie]

You get what you pay for....

 

[pacanis]

I'm not going to call the gun I bought to replicate "Manco's" gun from the first two movies in Clint's trilogy underwear, but that Cattleman I bought had something screwy going on with the bluing. I'm not sure how they could have messed it up and not noticed it before shipping here to sell. My guess is it wasn't properly cleaned before hitting the salt bath.
But since I was taking the scotchbrite to it, I didn't care.

Purchased online from someone... I don't recall who.
I would have been miffed more than I was to see that streaked pistol in the box after opening if I was not planning to alter it myself.

So I'm saying it's luck of the draw between BP and center fire quality.

 

[Stantheman86]

I bought a pair of the $234 specials on MidWay, the Pietta parts-bin cleanup guns.

The frames look like a kit gun that someone hit with sandpaper, and the barrels are not very well polished. They have Dance cylinders and horribly ill-fitted plastic grips. The bolt looks like it was fitted on a piece of concrete and the inside of the frame under the cylinder looks like it was hogged out with a dull rasp.

They are obviously made up from "seconds" parts that were put off to the side that had production flaws, and couldn't be used in more expensive guns going to other dealers. So MidWay most likely said, let's get some cheapies to flip quick...... so Pietta put together these Franken-brassers. The timing is good and they function as designed so I can't complain. I didn't even really clean them up that good after unboxing them, I just wiped them down quick. I'll pop a cap on each nipple to finish drying the factory oil and I'll pop off some 20 grain loads in them once the weather warms up a little.

For $234 I really don't care. I fit two pairs of wood take off grips to them to get those cheapo black plastic things off, and they look fine. You do get what you pay for, I wasn't expecting a couple of Pythons to arrive for $230. I got parts guns that it looks like the trainees practiced on. No problem at all.

I honestly hope Pietta keeps making "clean up guns", I'll suck up $250 rush job guns all day as long as they work. Can't have too many range blasters. If the finishing is rough then they fit right in as CSA contract revolvers rushed together to get out the door. Use your imagination, these aren't museum pieces. I work a lot and I'm often busy, and shooting cap and ballers is more economical than my centerfire stuff , so I'll use guns like this to sneak in an hour of pre-work range time and clean em up when I get to it the next day. I wouldn't do that with my $500 Walkers or 2nd Gens, or pretty much any of my Ubertis.

Once the frames yellow up a little bit and the blue gets some character on it, they'll look like some late war, rushed production Confederate revolvers. As long as they shoot straight, I consider these a bargain in today's market. I may even get 2 more to "antique".

I bought a 2022 production Uberti .38 Richards-Mason conversion and it's perfectly fit and finished, and shoots like a laser with 158 gr lead round nose .38

You never know what you're going to get if you order online.

I honestly believe Traditions is a middleman for Pietta factory seconds, and MidWay also pays less $$ wholesale for the "little bit off" guns for some of the models because they seem to have endless supplies of $230-50 Colt type brassers and magically have Uberti stuff like 1858 Remingtons for $50 less than everyone else.

 

[t.emard]

Also keep in mind that civilian collectors tend to have a.... very high, expectation of the quality of anything they purchase. Weapons that would have been shuttled straight to the front line without a second glance by contemporary quartermasters, are picked over with measuring tapes and bore lights from collectors. I personally take anything that doesn't actually affect the practicality of lead on target with a grain of salt.

You want perfection? Get ready to pay thousands.
You want function? Deal with the minor issues yourself or, just ignore them.

Happy shooting.

 

[user 52391]

I bought five new percussion and two cartridge Uberti's last year and all were exceptionally well fit and finished, Some of the best I've seen, and required minimal polish/tuning work by me to get them "running" properly. I'm not buying the story about the Scamdemic (all I'll EVER refer to it as.) having any effect on Italian repo quality whatsoever...At least not from Uberti.

 

[painter]

You get what you pay for....

Hopefully...

 

[CVA Enthusiast]

MMM CVA/Ubert/Pietta, They all have been hits and misses through the years I have purchased. My .36 Navy Yes I also had to pound out wedge, finishing on the internal surfaces was well disgraceful, when I got done with it I can hit 2-3 inch groups at 30 yards or so then again I am having fun not competition shooting

 

[Bad Karma]

Also keep in mind that civilian collectors tend to have a.... very high, expectation of the quality of anything they purchase. Weapons that would have been shuttled straight to the front line without a second glance by contemporary quartermasters, are picked over with measuring tapes and bore lights from collectors. I personally take anything that doesn't actually affect the practicality of lead on target with a grain of salt.

You want perfection? Get ready to pay thousands.
You want function? Deal with the minor issues yourself or, just ignore them.

Happy shooting.

Check out Charles Pates excellent book covering the Colt 1860 New Model Army. Nothing was “shuttled straight to the front of the line without a second glance by inspectors.” Those guns were inspected and gauged many many times in various stages of manufacture by teams of government inspectors and the inspectors themselves were subjected to constant supervision and their work inspected by other teams of inspectors. Colt often complained about the process… those pistols although made of inferior steels, were nearly perfect when they were boxed and shipped to quartermasters. The fit and function they required was of the highest grade. You’re right though, if we demanded the same craftsmanship of our modern manufacturers using the best available modern materials we’d have to spend thousands for an 1860… personall, I’d gladly pony up for a USFA built 1860…

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I buy and shoot lots of uberti cartridge Revolvers. Excellent quality. I have about all the c&b guns I'll ever need.

 

[Bad Karma]

I bought five new perrcussion and two cartridge Uberti's last year and all were exceptionally well fit and finished, Some of the best I've seen, and required minimal polish/tuning work by me to get them "running" properly. I'm not buying the story about the Scamdemic (all I'll EVER refer to it as.) having any effect on Italian repo quality whatsoever...At least not from Uberti.

I’ve always been happy with their quality. I’ve owned a few other brands that get pissed just thinking about.

 

[Stantheman86]

Check out Charles Pates excellent book covering the Colt 1860 New Model Army. Nothing was “shuttled straight to the front of the line without a second glance by inspectors.” Those guns were inspected and gauged many many times in various stages of manufacture by teams of government inspectors and the inspectors themselves were subjected to constant supervision and their work inspected by other teams of inspectors. Colt often complained about the process… those pistols although made of inferior steels, were nearly perfect when they were boxed and shipped to quartermasters. The fit and function they required was of the highest grade. You’re right though, if we demanded the same craftsmanship of our modern manufacturers using the best available modern materials we’d have to spend thousands for an 1860… personall, I’d gladly pony up for a USFA built 1860…

I remember when USFA was talking about gearing up for a percussion Colt lineup, but the CEO / Owner was making all kinds of crackpot guns like 16 shot .22 revolvers and fantasy guns like the Omnipotent, and they went under . I was about 25 at that time and I was fully prepared to eat Ramen for a month if USFA offered a Walker or Dragoon. Or any percussion Colt, really. I'd have paid $2,000 for a perfectly fitted and finished percussion Colt made from the same steel as their cartridge guns.

I actually tried to order an Omnipotent in 2005 or so and my dealer was like , that company is going under , you'll never see that gun, he had SASS guys who waited over a year for USFA orders and just gave up

I feel like the thinking of revolvers being rushed to the front applies more to individual Confederate revolver makers , where even though they did their best to fit them properly , I'm sure some "good enuff for Govt work" guns ended up being issued

 

[t.emard]

Check out Charles Pates excellent book covering the Colt 1860 New Model Army. Nothing was “shuttled straight to the front of the line without a second glance by inspectors.” Those guns were inspected and gauged many many times in various stages of manufacture by teams of government inspectors and the inspectors themselves were subjected to constant supervision and their work inspected by other teams of inspectors. Colt often complained about the process… those pistols although made of inferior steels, were nearly perfect when they were boxed and shipped to quartermasters. The fit and function they required was of the highest grade. You’re right though, if we demanded the same craftsmanship of our modern manufacturers using the best available modern materials we’d have to spend thousands for an 1860… personall, I’d gladly pony up for a USFA built 1860…

Thank you for the recommendation, I'll track down a copy. Though, you'll note that I specified quartermaster. As in, the weapon has already passed muster, has been issued to the army, shipped to a depot, and is being distributed to soldiers.


I didn't mean to suggest firearms were built in a factory, tossed in a crate, and opened on the front lines of Shiloh. I'm merely pointing out that civilian firearms in general, and reproductions in particular, have a vastly higher bar of clearance than their actual historical counterparts. In other words, most civilians are very picky with what they purchase, and since they're only buying one, not tens of thousands, they're going to tend to be even more picky about things like nicks in the stock, slight imperfections in fitting, etc. I suspect that if you transported your average collector to a 19th century armory, they'd turn their nose up at just about every single firearm in that building as being not good enough to warrant their money. No this one has nicks, no, this one has a scratch on its lockplate, no this one's ramrod is slightly bent at the swell, no..... etc.

 

[SOLANCO]

You get what you pay for....

Not necessarily. But you will rarely get what you did not pay for.

 

[smoothshooter]

I bought five new percussion and two cartridge Uberti's last year and all were exceptionally well fit and finished, Some of the best I've seen, and required minimal polish/tuning work by me to get them "running" properly. I'm not buying the story about the Scamdemic (all I'll EVER refer to it as.) having any effect on Italian repo quality whatsoever...At least not from Uberti.

You are obviously not familiar with the impact of the China Virus in Italy.
Some manufacturers lost as many as 30% of their work force ( deaths ).
A lot of them were their older and more skilled and experienced workers.
Replacements had to be hired and trained.

 

[Stantheman86]

Pietta is doing a great job
I have lots of 2022 dated revolvers and probably some 23s at this point

We can get a new gun that shoots , hits where you aim it, and that will provide you with a lifetime of entertainment for $250-300 .

Just don't expect a Colt, expect a Pietta

Too many people think 250 bucks is gonna buy them perfection

Uberti is doing great too. I have a bunch of their "post Pandemic " guns and I've been buying Ubertis for 20 years. The newest guns are just fine. Every manufacturer has lemons . I've had $30,000 cars that were lemons, it's not like you're going to pay $400 for a percussion revolver and not risk a lemon .

Cap and ball revolvers are "non firearms ", they live in a grey area of QC and don't need to meet any specs like SAAMI .

 

[user 52391]

You are obviously not familiar with the impact of the China Virus in Italy.
Some manufacturers lost as many as 30% of their work force ( deaths ).
A lot of them were their older and more skilled and experienced workers.
Replacements had to be hired and trained.

I am familiar and said nothing to suggest that I wasn't. I said that my 22 dated Uberti's were some of the nicest fit and finish wise that I've seen...So, the people they hired and trained as replacement workers, obviously had no negative effect on product quality.

 

[mushka]

In the last 3 or 4 years I have bought Uberti, Pietta, Traditions, Pedersoli, short and long guns and have been satisfied with all of them. Personally I can't fault any of my buying experiences with factory guns.

 

[springfield art]

A while ago I posted about my recent purchase of a Pietta handgun from Midway, $234 (Navy-ish, .44 cal.). I had a good bit of their mess to clean up. I got it all sorted out, made a grip out of red gum eucalyptus (original is plastic). polished the brass to a 400 grit finish. Haven't shot it yet but am really happy with how it turned out. It has a 2022 date stamp and I have read on this forum how the Italian gun makers quality has declined since the scamdemic.

So yesterday I picked up a Uberti unmentionable from my dealer, suffice it to say SAA-9, paid $625 from Bud's. This handgun is outstanding. Near flawless finish, perfectly checkered grip, crisp trigger with no perceptible creep (does have some over travel) build date 2022.

So I don't consider this a Uberti-Pietta quality difference but what? Is it just a better quality because of the price point difference or does Uberti treat center fire revolvers different than BP revolvers?

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Yeah, for $234 you aren't getting a top-tier item. The dealer wholesale price, all that comes into the mix. Italy truly did have heavy illness & death from the covid; also I read where many old-line workers retired, etc. Imagine the next time, if a bug 2 or 3 times as infectious and deadly comes into play; and don't think some evil government somewhere isn't working on it! (Remember Ebola? Who's to say "they" couldn't weaponize it? Glad it turned out good!

 

[GYJ]

I remember when USFA was talking about gearing up for a percussion Colt lineup, but the CEO / Owner was making all kinds of crackpot guns like 16 shot .22 revolvers and fantasy guns like the Omnipotent, and they went under . I was about 25 at that time and I was fully prepared to eat Ramen for a month if USFA offered a Walker or Dragoon. Or any percussion Colt, really. I'd have paid $2,000 for a perfectly fitted and finished percussion Colt made from the same steel as their cartridge guns.

I actually tried to order an Omnipotent in 2005 or so and my dealer was like , that company is going under , you'll never see that gun, he had SASS guys who waited over a year for USFA orders and just gave up

I feel like the thinking of revolvers being rushed to the front applies more to individual Confederate revolver makers , where even though they did their best to fit them properly , I'm sure some "good enuff for Govt work" guns ended up being issued

USFA didn't "go under". The president and CEO Doug Donnelly just decided to quit. In hindsight, the guns were too good and too expensive for the market to bear. Too much, "I'd rather have a Colt" from people who could never accept that USFA was making a better Colt than Colt ever did. They were selling the Pre-war for $1200 when it really should've been over $2000.

They did make some percussion guns from Uberti parts. I certainly would've gotten in line for percussion or cartridge conversion guns made to the same standards as the later domestic guns. I'm sure the market wouldn't have supported it though. Just look at the folks complaining about the quality of a $200 Italian.

I wouldn't call the 12/22 a "crackpot" gun, I love mine.

The OmniPotent never got off the ground, for whatever reason but in the last several years, you could buy standard production USFA's from Davidson's. Two of mine came from them.