Custom hawken

[Fastleo]

I very much enjoy muzzle loaders, I have since age 8 or so, dad bought me my first 54 cal renegade to be my first deer gun. I prefer the looks and feel of a half stock hawken style rifle. I want my next rifle to be a .58 slow twist hawken. I’ve looked for factory guns without much luck and I’m wondering if I should look for a non factory rifle or even find a builder. What has stopped me doing that so far is first the cost and second I have no clue who or what to look at. How do I know one custom gun is better than another? I know enough to inspect for overall condition and spot out neglect but that’s it. I just want a deer and elk rifle that will last me another 30years. Any advice or direction about things to look for or maybe builders or makers to consider would be appreciated.

Andy

 

[willfish4fud]

John Bergmann of TN builds excellent half stocks. Has a flikr account for pics. [email protected]. He usually has shorter wait times than most.

 

[willfish4fud]

 

[Dude]

Why not buy a .58 barrel for the Renegade?

 

[rich pierce]

With a custom gun there are different levels. But keep in mind that original Hawken rifles weighed 9.5-11 pounds. The narrow crescent buttplate works for some and is torture for others.

Level 1 custom gun: uses available parts to build a gun that looks pretty much like some originals. The maker may or may not have studied originals of that type very much. The maker may use a parts set or “kit”. Expect a well-functioning gun that looks like an original from 30 feet away.

Level 2 custom gun: uses carefully selected parts and careful study of originals of that type to build a well-functioning custom gun closely resembling a group of originals. The maker may use precarve stock and parts sets with some customization. Probably little wiggle room on length of pull, drop, and so on.

Level 3 custom gun: a builder with decades of study and experience builds a one-off custom gun starting with drafting a blueprint and making or modifying parts as needed, often to closely replicate a specific original. Length of pull and drop are custom. $3000-$5000.

 

[Jim Wag]

What
"Level" of build is the rifle
Pictured above

Jim in La Luz

 

[rich pierce]

What
"Level" of build is the rifle
Pictured above

Jim in La Luz

Builder did not ask for a critique. Nice try!

 

[Fastleo]

With a custom gun there are different levels. But keep in mind that original Hawken rifles weighed 9.5-11 pounds. The narrow crescent buttplate works for some and is torture for others.

Level 1 custom gun: uses available parts to build a gun that looks pretty much like some originals. The maker may or may not have studied originals of that type very much. The maker may use a parts set or “kit”. Expect a well-functioning gun that looks like an original from 30 feet away.

Level 2 custom gun: uses carefully selected parts and careful study of originals of that type to build a well-functioning custom gun closely resembling a group of originals. The maker may use precarve stock and parts sets with some customization. Probably little wiggle room on length of pull, drop, and so on.

Level 3 custom gun: a builder with decades of study and experience builds a one-off custom gun starting with drafting a blueprint and making or modifying parts as needed, often to closely replicate a specific original. Length of pull and drop are custom. $3000-$5000.

I think I could do level 2, I’m not a period correct kinda guy. I just like the style. How much do level 1&2 cost ?

andy

 

[Fastleo]

Why not buy a .58 barrel for the Renegade?

Would love to find one, where should I look? I still want to buy another gun but would buy a barrel too.

 

[bluemule66]

Easiest and probably cheapest way would be to find a used. 54 Hawken or renegade barrel and send it to Bob Hoyt to bore and rerifle to what you want. He does very good work and is affordable. Then you can upgrade your lock and triggers if you want also. Maybe refinish the stock and it will look like a new gun.

 

[rich pierce]

I think I could do level 2, I’m not a period correct kinda guy. I just like the style. How much do level 1&2 cost ?

andy

Parts for a Hawken build could run $1000-$1200. Then either you build it (Hawken rifles are difficult) or pay someone to do it for $1000 on up.

 

[Fastleo]

Parts for a Hawken build could run $1000-$1200. Then either you build it (Hawken rifles are difficult) or pay someone to do it for $1000 on up.

I’m not sure I’m a gun builder quite yet. Where does one buy parts at?

 

[Africa58double]

Log cabin In Lodi Ohio

On line, Track of the Wolf

 

[Fastleo]

Log cabin In Lodi Ohio

On line, Track of the Wolf

totw hawken kits are not in stock in 58. Plus it’s really hard to get a impression of quality from there website. Log cabin doesn’t have kits.

 

[willfish4fud]

Don’t know about 3 levels etc. I don’t believe there is a system all builders adhere to With levels. I talked at length to several custom builders prior to going with Mr Bergmann and never heard this. That being said, it’s a custom gun so I guess you can get it however you want if that builder will provide it in One “level” or another.
what I did hear as I researched who to build a hawken style gun was the same 3 names: John Bergman, Brant Selb, and another that escapes me but I’ll have it in my notes. I heard these same names from people who ordered guns as well as the builders themselves...including these 3 guys. I went with a John for my own reasons. He was within driving distance so I did the 7 hour trip n handled guns n did measurements n talked preferences. Also he had a build opening sooner.
I wanted a Hawken. But I hate crescent butt plates for my own reasons. He steered me toward a squirrel rifle in .45 for my first build explaining to me that historically not all hawken had the severe crescent. Music to my ears. I wanted to be as historically accurate as possible but also wanted to be able to shoot in the awkward positions hunting sometimes requires without poking a hole in my shoulder. You’ll notice the much less severe crescent on the rifle with the silver escutcheons. This is that gun.
This was my experience. Your mileage may vary

 

[Fastleo]

Don’t know about 3 levels etc. I don’t believe there is a system all builders adhere to With levels. I talked at length to several custom builders prior to going with Mr Bergmann and never heard this. That being said, it’s a custom gun so I guess you can get it however you want if that builder will provide it in One “level” or another.
what I did hear as I researched who to build a hawken style gun was the same 3 names: John Bergman, Brant Selb, and another that escapes me but I’ll have it in my notes. I heard these same names from people who ordered guns as well as the builders themselves...including these 3 guys. I went with a John for my own reasons. He was within driving distance so I did the 7 hour trip n handled guns n did measurements n talked preferences. Also he had a build opening sooner.
I wanted a Hawken. But I hate crescent butt plates for my own reasons. He steered me toward a squirrel rifle in .45 for my first build explaining to me that historically not all hawken had the severe crescent. Music to my ears. I wanted to be as historically accurate as possible but also wanted to be able to shoot in the awkward positions hunting sometimes requires without poking a hole in my shoulder. You’ll notice the much less severe crescent on the rifle with the silver escutcheons. This is that gun.
This was my experience. Your mileage may vary

Thank you!

 

[rich pierce]

Bob Browner is not surpassed in creating authentic Hawken rifles. Louie Parker the same. Neither need work for the next 3 or 4 years. But if someone is not an avid fan of historically correct re-creations, or and doesn’t have money and time in abundance, and wants a .58 caliber percussion halfstock rifle, I’d not go down the “true Hawken” route.

 

[Juice Jaws]

I think I could do level 2, I’m not a period correct kinda guy. I just like the style. How much do level 1&2 cost ?

andy

If you have to ask the price you can't afford it. If you want a good hunting gun it's hard to beat a Lyman

 

[Rod Man]

Here's one that a fella on this forum posted about.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/new-w-b-selb-hawken.140269/page-2#post-1966099
RM

 

[William Hagewood]

I second what willfish4ud said and Mr. Bergmann also makes fine, HC full stock Hawkens that are reasonably priced with wait times less than 6 mo. He made this one for me in 2020: