Custom Left Hand Full Stock Hawken

[Dean2]

I know this one picture makes it pretty hard to really get a good look at this gun, but I was wondering if the experts on here in Hawken design could tell me if they consider this a well crafted and designed full stock Hawken. Also, what would you think it would be worth, claim is that it cost $7,000 when purchased. If anyone knows anything about the builder that would be good info also. Thanks for the help.

Left hand flint full stock Hawkin.....new spare lock...62 and 54 cal system...hook breech...built by Taylor Sapergia P.G.

 

[wattlebuster]

All of the rifles Ive seen on the different forums by the man look very well made. I have not seen any in person so thats as far as I can go. This rifle has the best looking piece of wood I've seen in a long time and I will bet that it alone cost a very pretty penny. I like the stain and finish on the gun too.

 

[MacRob46]

That appears to be a very nice rifle, well-built and about as authentic as any full-stock flint Hawken can be. Can't tell what barrel, lock, and triggers he used but the stock is made from highly-figured wood which is not cheap. Depending on its condition, and, if I understand you correctly, that it has two barrels and two locks, then it is proably worth quite a bit. However, I think $7000 is a very high figure for even the most well-made Hawken.

 

Nice gun, very nice gun, but even with an extra barrel and spare lock I can't see seven grand.
There are some variables.
At the top of the list is the maker. If you take two rifles that are nearly identical, one by a nationaly know maker with a following and one by a part-timer who, talent aside, is strictly a hobbiest, the one by the known maker might bring twice or more.

 

[Robby]

I agree Randy, in that a big name can really amp up the price from one maker to another, everything else being equal.
Taylor is very well know in the community of gun makers for both his craftsmanship and knowledge. I do not know him personally but have seen many guns made by him on different forums, and read many of his comments. He is especially well versed on Hawkins guns and their architecture. Not being a collector, that price would not shock me when compared to other guns made by other named makers with a "Bigger" name. Certainly, down the road his guns will command a very high price.
Robby

 

[sleeperNY]

He is listed in the Contemporary Makers listings and has made some of the best looking rifles I have seen. http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2011/08/copy-of-verners-rifle-by-d-taylor.html
Check out the link, and also this one. http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2011/08/copy-of-verners-rifle-by-d-taylor.html

Jim

 

[Dean2]

That was really quick and great info from Sleeper and all the rest of you. The knowledge on here never ceases to amaze me.

The closeup pictures in the article do a much better job of demonstrating his skill than the poor photo I was looking at. Will have to get some better photos from the guy that has this one. Thanks guys and any more input is always welcome.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Please don't doubt Taylor's abilities. He builds beautiful guns. My tastes run more to eastern flint guns, so I can't speak to this hawken as to style. In fact it would take more photos to do that anyway. However, I would never doubt Taylor's ability to produce a gun from any style or school. He made a wheel lock pistol that I drool over.

Here is a link to his blog:
Link

I enjoyed speaking to him at Dixon's a few years ago.
Regards,
Pletch

 

[Rifleman1776]

Beautiful, well done rifle. No doubt.
But....$7,000.00 worth?
Not IMHO.

 

[jdkerstetter]

As has been said here, Tayor's reputation is well founded. He is reported to build some of the very best Hawken rifle reproductions and I have little doubt that this one is correct.

Now, $7000 seems high to me for a rifle of this type of rifle when you consider that you can get a highly embelished, engraved and relief carved Eastern style longrifle made by any of several big name builders for this price...and likely more on the used market. To give you an idea this David Dodds bench copy of a William Antes rifle, that was reportedly the best ever done, sold within the last couple years for $4500. And this was after David passed, which we all know affects the price:
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2011/03/david-dodds-rifle.html

That being said, a couple of things that may affect the price....left handed custom gun will often cost more as there just aren't that many out there percentage wise. Also, are the barrels tapered? That will bump the price as will the work of fitting 2 barrels to a single build as this is a time consuming endeavor.

Also consider that, with Taylor's name on a Hawken, it is an investment and will only go up in value. Guns by builders of good repute always command a premium and make future sales easier.

If it's what you want enter into negotiations and see what the best price you can get it for is. Call Taylor and see what it would cost to order a gun to your specifications....and ask how long you will likely wait for it.

All things to consider. Good luck in your decision. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Dean2]

So lightly used and given the info on hand, the quality of the maker, two barrels, one Green River in 54 with 1:66 twist, on Rice in 62 1:72 twist, two L and R locks, one kept new as a spare, both tuned by the maker, what would be a reasonable price, regardless of the original cost. Thanks.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Well, another highly regarded Hawken builder, W.B. Selb, gets $2525 for a full stock rifle with a fixed flint breech and L&R lock, according to his website:
http://www.hawkenrifles.com/index.html

He will upgrade to a Bob Roller lock (though unlikely left handed) and triggers for another $150. He will also case harden and fire blue all of the hardware for another $175.

Now, considering the extra barrel and lock and the hooked breeching, I would likely guestimate a value of $3500, give or take, for this gun....no offence meant to Taylor.

But, consider that you don't have to wait for the build to be completed and other factors that might be important to you and you have to make up your own mind.

J.M.H.O. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Dphar]

Considering the high end Kentuckys can go for 50K?
People should look to the prices paid for 1911 design handguns. A stock Colt Gov't starts at 900. The custom makers get a LOT more. Look at some bolt action rifles. 1100 to 2500 or double that for a rifle that is, relatively, hardly touched by human hands. http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/sa...synthetic-stock-desert-finished-p-120467.html

The Scope will run 1500 and up depending on if the shooter wants a good one. The cheapos will be 500-1000.
So if we buy a high end tactical type rifle and a Night Force scope we have 10 grand +- in a plastic stocked gun made for the most part on CNC equipment, bead blasted and blued no sights at all, etc etc. Want a tricked out 1911 for backup? Add 2000-4000.
Yeah them quality custom MLs are sure priced high...

Dan

 

[Dphar]

A semi-skilled gun assembler for Colt perhaps makes UAW union scale. The multi-faceted highly skilled ML maker gets paid like someone on a street corner holding a "50% off clearance sale" sign for some furniture store.

Dan

 

[jdkerstetter]

Dan, Who's getting $50K for a contemporary longrifle? Must be one of the guys building from "scratch", making their own barrels and locks, etc....or the "high art" guys like Jerry H.

One of my neighbors is one of the highest rated builders of longrifles in the world, ships many guns to Germany and elsewhere, and I don't know that he's ever gotten $10K, though he likely will. Now, there are those who say that he's underpriced.

I sence a little tounge in cheek from you because, as far as comparing moderns to contemporarily built muzzleloaders, you know it's apples and oranges. You've said yourself...many times...the the component cost alone on moderns eclipses the equivelent on ML's, i.e. barrel prices.

Why? I don't know, is it because we are a smaller niche community or just cheap. Enjoy, J.D.

....sencond post reveals my suspitions! 'Nough said. Thanks, J.D.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

At the CLA show, I was at the table of a friend, a well known maker of swivel breeches. While I stood there he sold a beautifully carved wender for $17,000.

In a conversation a few years earlier, I was trying to figure out how I could own one of his guns. He told me, "You can't afford one of my guns." He was kind about it, but he was right.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[F.G. Ford]

What a gun is worth depends how much the seller is asking, and how much free cash a buyer is willing to blow!
A Tata from Inda, and a Rolls Royce from England both have four wheels and a motor.
Which has more value......depends on how far you have walked and how far you have to walk, I guess.
7K for a gun :hmm: :idunno:
Old Ford

 

[Ike Godsey]

well, i don't know if i count in here - since i am from germany and we usally do not see so many custom build guns over here.

the rifle is well build - as the others said. VERY nice wood - like the stripes :grin:
i am a little puzzled since i have always thought that Hawken rifles like this are not made in flint.
all the reference material that i have red and all the pics i have seen from origial Hawkens, i have never seen a flint rifle, nor any that has been converted.

i could be wrong - and if so, i would you guys please to correct me - but a Hawken in flint would be a NO GO for me.

like others said, 7.000US$ for it? NO! not even here (consider extra costs for shipping and the need for an officialy proof stamp) does a rifle costs that many money.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Dan I disagree with your premise(s) but agree on some points. I have known more than a few custom builders and know of many more. Some of the high end guys are far better at marketing than other builders. Finding someone willing to pay in the tens of thousands is a skill in itself. That really doesn't make the gun 'worth' as much as it sells for. Taylor may be well known to some but he is a virtual unknown to many others.
As for the custom built modern stuff. We have a fellow in our area who is a masters-master at building modern guns. He has a 1911 he built himself, 100% from scratch, not a factory screw or spring or anything on it, for $3,000.00. It is engraved and a thing of beauty.
The Hawken in question, still, IMHO, is not worth $7,000.00. Mebbe half that.

 

[LaBonte]

Why not just make contact with Taylor and ask him what the original price with the two locks and two barrels was? You have a link to his blog plus he posts on ALR all the time.