CVA Flintlock ignition issues

[awreis]

I have an older CVA flintlock that sparks really well and will shoot reliably for the first 30 shots or so. After this, I can't get any ignition in the barrel unless I remove the touch hole liner and sprinkle the tiniest amount of powder inside the barrel, then reinstall the liner. After this, I can get and ignition but it is very delayed. Could this be because of a dirty patent breech? Also if this is the issue, would a bronze or nylon brush of correct size be best for cleaning? Maybe a sturdy pipe cleaner used from the touch hole? I haven't had the gun a long time so still getting familiar with it.

 

[snakebit]

Disclaimer: NOT an expert, just got my first flintlock last week so I'll be watching this. Sounds like you nailed the problem.. 30 shots seems like quite a bit before fouling gets ornery. but that's what it sounds like. Not sure how easy it would be to clean on the range and get back to shooting. I hope I can get 30'shots out of mine when I get out to shoot it.

 

[azmntman]

Yep, I bet it's a dirty breech. What powder you use? May have to switch brands. I hear Swiss is one of the cleanest, but I don't even remember the last time I got off 30 shots in a single range trip. I am slow.

 

[awreis]

Yep, I bet it's a dirty breech. What powder you use? May have to switch brands. I hear Swiss is one of the cleanest, but I don't even remember the last time I got off 30 shots in a single range trip. I am slow.

I shoot Goex. My thought was to just carry a brush and give it a quick scrub and then put an alcohol wipe on the end and give it a clean to be able to keep going.

 

[jdw276]

I shoot Goex. My thought was to just carry a brush and give it a quick scrub and then put an alcohol wipe on the end and give it a clean to be able to keep going.

No brush. May get stuck. Simple wipe or even one of those bore mops for a modern gun. Down and back. I also put a patch on my ramrod while i am loading. As I push the ball down the patch cleans up some of the crude in the barrel before you shoot. While you are loading might as well clean with the same stroke. Two in one effort.

 

[azmntman]

Try a pipe cleaner from touch hole to breech. Damp, not soaked. That may clear it up.

 

[BoomStick]

Rather than a brush at the range, try a breech scraper:

One of these is around $5 and should not get stuck like a brush might.

You can use a 27 or 30 cal bore brush when cleaning at home, but not something I would try at the range.

 

[kyron4]

I think most of us would be quite happy with 30 shoots in a row with no knapping or picking or wiping. Especially with a CVA/Traditions.

 

[awreis]

I think most of us would be quite happy with 30 shoots in a row with no knapping or picking or wiping. Especially with a CVA/Traditions.

I think I got really lucky with the lock I got on mine. It sparks really well and actually has a pretty smooth action. Atleast from what I can tell from my limited experience. I havent handled a high quality custom lock yet as a comparison.

 

[Rebel bull]

my guess is that you are build up crud in the flash channel put a tooth pick in the touch hole pore in some cleaner of choice ( water is traditional long hunters didn't have all of our concoctions ) and then put a patch on your cleaning jag and force it out through the touch hole under force repeat the patches until dry good to go

 

[Kansas Jake]

Cleaning the breech without getting into the smaller antichamber will not likely help much. A small caliber jag such as .22 may work to clean it.

 

[Rebel bull]

Cleaning the breech without getting into the smaller antichamber will not likely help much. A small caliber jag such as .22 may work to clean it.

Which is why you flush it trying to get a 22 cal brush into the fire channel from the muzzle is a true exercise in patience and frustration and doesn’t get the fouling out of the channel behind the touch hole liner but flushing it does

 

[Marshhawk]

OK, not period correct, but if shooting multiple times with my CVA .45, I give the touch hole a blast of compressed gas (Blow Off Duster) after firing, and use a pick in the channel before priming the pan. Had trouble with ignitions before after multiple shots. Not since.

 

[rafterob]

Not sure of your loading technique, but inserting a pick in the hole while loading and then removing it afterwards might help.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I’ve not had trouble getting a small jag into my Shenandoah.

 

[bpd303]

my guess is that you are build up crud in the flash channel put a tooth pick in the touch hole pore in some cleaner of choice ( water is traditional long hunters didn't have all of our concoctions ) and then put a patch on your cleaning jag and force it out through the touch hole under force repeat the patches until dry good to go

I agree 100% with this. It works where others do not.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

my guess is that you are build up crud in the flash channel put a tooth pick in the touch hole pore in some cleaner of choice ( water is traditional long hunters didn't have all of our concoctions ) and then put a patch on your cleaning jag and force it out through the touch hole under force repeat the patches until dry good to go

A little clarification in how I personally clean my longrifles. First thing I do is remove the lock for cleaning. Then I put a toothpick or twig in the touch hole. Then I pour what I guess to be about 2" of my cleaning fluid (can be water but usually I use some MAP) down the barrel and stand the rifle up so the fluid can soak in the bottom of the barrel. Then I clean and oil my lock.

At this point I wet a patch and start sliding it down the barrel. Since I have a toothpick or twig blocking the vent I start to feel back pressure. I typically push until I feel it's enough pressure (gets harder to push farther); point the vent away from anything I don't want to stain black; and quickly pluck the toothpick out ramming the ramrod down forcefully. This will push about a 6-foot stream of ugly black junk (fouling) out of the vent. Then I'll go ahead with wet patches until they come back clean; fun a dry patch down to dry it off; and finally put a little on a patch and run that down and up a couple of times to put a slight coat of oil on it. This has worked perfectly for me for the past 10-years and YES it will clean out those patent breeches perfectly without a separate brush. I used it on a Traditions longrifle originally and it has a patent breech on it. Never had a trouble with breech being clogged as long as I cleaned my rifle every day that I shot it.

By the way, that caution about pointing the vent away from anything you don't want stained black is very important. You'll be amazed how much totally black crud comes flying out the vent and how fat it reaches. I stained a tent that way the first time I did it....oops!

 

[Twisted_1in66]

Cleaning the breech without getting into the smaller antichamber will not likely help much. A small caliber jag such as .22 may work to clean it.

Actually it works Great. Please see my post in message #17 of this thread. For the Three years that I used my Traditions Pennsylvania Longrifle in reenactments typically firing about 100-shots (blanks) per weekend in about 8 reenactments per year. All of the Traditions and most other production longrifles use a version of the Patent breech, which does offer some breech cleaning challenges. I used the hydraulic pressure method I described and never had any problems at all with the breech getting dirty - never used a tiny patch and never used a brass brush on it. About 3-years after I bought that Traditions and started using it in reenactments, I purchased an Early Lancaster Rifle from a private builder and that 44½" long barrel has a standard breech on it. By the way, shooting blanks leaves a LOT more fouling than live firing does. I use the same method with it and have had no trouble with it either.

One other note on patent breeches: using that small jag to get into cleans that just fine, but does nothing to clean the channel from the vent to where the channel from the vent meets the middle of the back of the breech. Using a common vent pick is not long enough to clean it out either. That hydraulic pressure method works well cleaning all parts of the breech.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I have an older CVA flintlock that sparks really well and will shoot reliably for the first 30 shots or so. After this, I can't get any ignition in the barrel unless I remove the touch hole liner and sprinkle the tiniest amount of powder inside the barrel, then reinstall the liner. After this, I can get and ignition but it is very delayed. Could this be because of a dirty patent breech? Also if this is the issue, would a bronze or nylon brush of correct size be best for cleaning? Maybe a sturdy pipe cleaner used from the touch hole? I haven't had the gun a long time so still getting familiar with it.

I suspect that you want to shoot more than 30 times without going through a major clean up at the range. Let us take a look at the new CVA style breech to see how the dirty breech could be the cause of the failure to fire. We can also see how a vent pick isn't likely to get an open channel to the powder charge.

We can see that the hole in the breech plug leading into the powder chamber can become bridged with fouling. A wipe with a 22 or 30 caliber brush with a cleaning patch wrap dampened with rubbing alcohol will clear the fouling so shooting can continue.

What you didn't say is if you are wiping the bore between shots or occasionally during the shooting session. You have a couple of choices to deal with fouling that can bridge the opening in the breech plug.

As has been mentioned earlier, a cleaning that flushes out the breech will do it.

You can also select a smaller jag than the bore sized jag so a dampened patch will slide over the fouling as the rod is inserted while bunching up to pull fouling out of the bore.

You can wipe the chambered breech with the subcaliber patch to clean out the chambered breech.

You can send a blast of high pressure CO2 from a ball discharger through the touch hole to blow out the fouling bridge.

You can do the never wipe method by loading the powder the patch the ball with a wet patch to wipe the bore as you load.

There's also the load the powder, then a lubricated bore sized wad. Wipe the bore with a damp patch then the patched ball. Really this may be too many steps to shoot the next round.

There's probably several more methods to prevent fouling from making a bridge or dam that will block the flame getting from the touch hole to the powder.

 

[awreis]

I suspect that you want to shoot more than 30 times without going through a major clean up at the range. Let us take a look at the new CVA style breech to see how the dirty breech could be the cause of the failure to fire. We can also see how a vent pick isn't likely to get an open channel to the powder charge.

View attachment 292970

We can see that the hole in the breech plug leading into the powder chamber can become bridged with fouling. A wipe with a 22 or 30 caliber brush with a cleaning patch wrap dampened with rubbing alcohol will clear the fouling so shooting can continue.

What you didn't say is if you are wiping the bore between shots or occasionally during the shooting session. You have a couple of choices to deal with fouling that can bridge the opening in the breech plug.

As has been mentioned earlier, a cleaning that flushes out the breech will do it.

You can also select a smaller jag than the bore sized jag so a dampened patch will slide over the fouling as the rod is inserted while bunching up to pull fouling out of the bore.

You can wipe the chambered breech with the subcaliber patch to clean out the chambered breech.

You can send a blast of high pressure CO2 from a ball discharger through the touch hole to blow out the fouling bridge.

You can do the never wipe method by loading the powder the patch the ball with a wet patch to wipe the bore as you load.

There's also the load the powder, then a lubricated bore sized wad. Wipe the bore with a damp patch then the patched ball. Really this may be too many steps to shoot the next round.

There's probably several more methods to prevent fouling from making a bridge or dam that will block the flame getting from the touch hole to the powder.

I was doing the wipe occasionally approach but not getting down into the recessed part of the because honestly, I didn't realize my rifle had a patent breech. Still a little new to the game. I do have some alcohol wipes that I use for swabing the barrel so I may have to try those with a smaller jag to get into the breech area. As far as flushing out the breech, I usually remove the barrel and stick the breech end in a bucket of soapy water and give the hole barrel a good flushing when done shooting.

I do appreciate all the help. I have asked several questions on the forum and everyone has been answered by multiple people. The different takes on a situation helps a lot. And I try (with my limited experience) to give answers when I can as a return.