Cva hawken finish change questions

[skota]

Hey there folks,
Got my first bear rifle and I'm thinking about making a couple of changes.
It has a high gloss finish that I'm not too excited about and would like to go towards a satin/flat finish.

I'd also like to darken it up a bit, it's a light orange color now and I'd like to go darker while also trying to separate the dater wood from the light.

I'm pretty new to wood staining but have an idea of what I'd like to do. Any suggestions would be appreciated and if you see anything in my plans that are just plain dumb, let me know

First I plan to strip the stalk down and sand down to the bare wood with sand paper
From here I'm thinking about going with stains and waxes from Menards, probably minwax. But if this is a bad route please chime in.

I've also got a new .54 barrel on the way in the white, I'll be browning it.
Thanks for any help
Steve

 

[jdkerstetter]

First I plan to strip the stalk down and sand down to the bare wood with sand paper
From here I'm thinking about going with stains and waxes from Menards, probably minwax.

Try to remove the top coat with a stripper instead of sanding.

I'm not a big fan of sanding gun stocks...others here are though. When sanding back up the paper with a block on the flat parts and avoid the sharp edges of the stock as you don't want to round them over. Procede cautiously.

When you say "bare wood" do you all the way through the color? If so, bad move. The stain likely pentrated and you would have to remove much to get rid of it. Also, it's not neccessary since you want to go darker....just stain over it after you remove the plastic topcoat.

I would not use "off the shelf" stains on a gun as they are not light fast and the pigment is actually solids that are suspended in the carrier and much of it lays on the wood instead of penetrating, giving it a muddy look.

Google up the stains for guns like Homer Dangler's and Laural Mountain Forge. They are not cost prohibitive and will likely work better for you.

If you have to go off the shelf for finish you might consider a spar varnish as it's exterior rated. Don't buy semi-gloss or matte as they have additives in them to cut the gloss that actually interfere with the clarity of the finish. Buy the high gloss and after it's dry knock back the shine with 0000 steel wool or mild scotch-brite.

Edit: Here's a link to Jim Klein's site as he carried the Homer Dangler brand of stains and finish. You can also get your rust brown for your barrel from this same page:
http://www.jklongrifles.com/AddInfo.html

That's as simple as it gets. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[skota]

Great info, thanks!

I'll be sure to go to your source there for the stuff you suggested and post a few pics when done

:thumbsup:

 

[jdkerstetter]

Go slow and good luck. If you do some googling or searches on this forum you will likely find a few CVA reworks that guys have done. Some of them turn out pretty good. Sows ear, silk purse good.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[rusty]

If you use off the counter stainyou probably won't like what you end up with,solvent based stains to not penatrate well.However I went to my local Benjamin Moore paint store,and they mixed me up some alcohal based stain,and you can get the color you want

 

[Rifleman1776]

You aren't wrong. But aren't we dealing with an unknown variable here? It is a CVA. I don't know what kind of wood they use. Some here may. I don't but, at one time, it was thought to be some species of Spanish Apple. Acid stains react differently with different woods. Not sure what I would do. I might first just go over the stock with four aught (0000) steel wood to dull the finish. But, if stripped bare some tests in the barrel channel might lead to a better method.

 

[jdkerstetter]

I'm confused Frank. I didn't recommend an acid stain. Homer Dangler and LMF stains are alcohol based dyes as far as I know. The guy said he wants to darken the wood up....can't blame 'im.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I'm confused Frank. I didn't recommend an acid stain. Homer Dangler and LMF stains are alcohol based dyes as far as I know. The guy said he wants to darken the wood up....can't blame 'im.

Enjoy, J.D.

That means I'm the one confused, not you. :shocked2:
Actually, I thought Laurel Mtn. was acid based. Oh, well. I've used up my only allowed misteak for the year. :wink:

 

[jdkerstetter]

No problem Frank. Thanks for clearing that up. I would have the same concerns as you using acid stains on unknown Euro wood....bet it would darken it up though....likely black! :wink:

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[skota]

Think it was a good mistake actually, gives me the idea to do some testing in areas that'll be covered up :hmm:

Jim at JKlongrifles gave me some good ideas with starting with his red then going over it with the dark brown, I may buy some of each finish he has to get the color I want. Also doing a slightly different color on the rod for contrast.

Thanks again guys

 

[JohnN]

How about the metal parts ? Is there one finish that would be more accurate than another ? Brown, blue, or aged natural ?

 

[skota]

Not sure how accurate it is, but I'm not going to do anything with the brass, letting it age if it sticks out too much from the darker wood.
I saw one where they had blackened it, it looked great, but the brass is one of the things that first caught my attention.

 

[Lamonta]

I am just finishing (browning) a CVA that I did a similar application. Hope to have photos in a couple of days. I used furniture stripper to take the original finish off. That with steel wool took about an hour. After that, sanding, without water, then with water. I used minwax Red Mahogany to match an original rifle that I once owned. That old CVA mystery wood is extremely hard and doesn't take a stain well, so I repeated that at least 10 times - low and behold it took on a really nice tone as well as showed grain that the original finish didn't show. After that I used tung oil - at least 10 coats. If you have a warm environment, like next to the woodstove, you can reapply once per hour. I have had good luck with true oil, but tung oil is now my favorite. It came out with a low luster finish very close to the original rifle I copied. Some folks put wax over the tung oil. I just reapply tung oil as needed. Contrary to other posts, you do not have to go too deep. In fact, you don't need to 100% remove the original finish to take the stain. Also, original CVA stocks are a little clunky with the wood proud above the metal parts - not as thin in the wrist, comb, or cheekpad as original rifles, so sanding it away doesn't hurt a bit. Realistically, you are taking away no more than 1mm to remove the original finished. The CVA mystery wood is also hell for stout. Good luck!

 

[M. De Land]

I've been messing around with epoxies heated to make thin just before they kick over for stock sealing and then knock them back and finish with Linspeed or Tru-oil.
It sure seals them better than any oil I have used and it looks just like and oil only finish.
I got the idea from some fellas using it on single shot cartridge rifles and have been experimenting with it myself.
I've read that there are some epoxies out there that are formulated very thinly and will penetrate well when accompanied with heat guns. This is also supposed to be a good way to stain them using the heated epoxy as a carrier.
I am just beginning to experiment with it and can't come to the place of recommendation other than it sure seals well and looks authentically like oil to me. MD

 

[jdkerstetter]

...I used minwax Red Mahogany...That old CVA mystery wood is extremely hard and doesn't take a stain well, so I repeated that at least 10 times

That's why I always recommend dye based stains. The problem wasn't the wood but the pigment based stain. The hardware store stains contain varying sizes of pigments that provide the color....that's the stuff that settles to the bottom of the can and the stuff that doesn't penetrate and you end up wiping off.

When using these stains on a dense wood only the smallest of the the pigment can penetrate and you end up wiping more color away....so more applications....to get it as dark as you want....though 10+ seems excessive.

Dye based stains, whether using alcohol or water as the carrier, penetrate almost completely and you are often able to get the desired color in one application. They are also transparent so they pop the grain better and lend themselves to layering....using yellow, orange or red under browns to gives depth of color.

Give 'em a try. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[JohnN]

Someone once said that this stuff is pretty good. Have not tried it yet: Link I have used Tung oil with pretty good results. I usually start with a mixture of 50% Tung oil and 50% mineral spirits. With each coat I lower the amount of spirits by about 5% until I put on a final coat of just oil.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Yep, heard that too. Brownell's carries the Chem-Pak finishes which are tung oil & urethane formulated for gun stocks. Very good products.

And another simular product is the spar varnish from Waterlox. A very tough finish and water and UV resistant:
http://www.woodcraft.com/PRODUCT/2...ode=10INGOPB&gclid=CJS7pJ-RgbUCFQixnQodz3kAWQ

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[rafterob]

Lamonta correctly issued the warning, the BEECH wood used on CVA stocks is hard and does not take stain easily. If you have a stock that has interesting grain patterns you can get some nice contrasting lines. I have a Pistol with awesome lines on one side, My Mtn. Rifle is plain as can be.

 

[skota]

I got around to stripping the old finish today.

After two applications of stripping I still had a good deal of old finish present and removing the mess left over was a chore, so I moved on to sanding and have it about 90% done. Not sure if the stripper I'm using is junk or not but it just wasn't making any progress.

The sanding gave me an idea I'd like to bounce off you guys. I sanded the cheek pad before getting to the part below it so the cheek pad was very light with the natural wood finish and the back half of the stock and below the cheek pad still had the finish which was dark. I really like the way it shows the contours of the wood. Now when it is ready for the new finish, would I be getting myself into trouble if I tried to mimick this look by adding more coats on this lower and back portion of the stock and less on the pad?

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[Zonie]

It would look strange to me but if you like it, go for it.

As you read in the posts above, the MinWax and similar stains and "all in one" coatings do not work well with Beechwood.
It is too dense to absorb the stains so they will end up frustrating you.

If you want this two tone look, use a alcohol based stain and before applying it, dilute it with denatured alcohol.

That will reduce the darkness of each coat so you can control how much you want in each area, like one or two coats on the cheekpiece (to get it uniform) and more coats elsewhere.

You can apply alcohol based stains as many times as you wish and each application will add darkness and color to the area.