CVA Kentucky bore rust?

[sheepman]

I bought an old kit CVA Kentucky 45 rifle. The kit had never been built, it is now finished and shooting. I clean it with soap and hot water and run patches through it tell dry and clean. Then I run a oiled patch and store in the safe. After several days I run a dry patch down the bore and it comes out rut colored, what am I doing wrong?

I am using Pyrodex RS and CVA patch grease. I have been told that real black powder is less corrosive and will be faster to fire, there is some times a delay from when the cap fires and the powder fires. Will pick up a LB of FF next week to try.

I have seen several muzzle loaders that have been left uncleaned that had pitted barrels. The gun shoots accurately and I just want to do what is necessary to keep it that way. Thanks for any advice

 

[Bill Hall]

I had that problem with a barrel years ago. It seems once that superfical rust gets started, it's difficult to get rid of it.

Try running down tight oily patches for several days in a row after cleaning. With each day, run the patches until the bore comes out clean. Repeat the process every day until the day comes when no rust can be found. Check every few days after that and keep that bore heavily oiled.

I'm betting that you need to get out that rooted rust, and after that it will clean up better.

Oh yeah, stop using hot water. It's only going to make the rust problem worse. Cold, or warm water works just fine. The hot water may be the original cause of the rust. Hope this helps. Bill

 

[sheepman]

Thanks I will give that a try.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Spoke City is notorious for high humidity. If yer bore is truly clean after you get through with it, I'll betcha you simply need a better protectant in the bore. CLP Break-Free, RIG and others might work for you. In previous similar threads others here have mentioned products they have had good luck with. I'm sure they will chime in soon.
BTW, 3Fg is generally considered the preferable powder for a .45 cal.

 

[StewartLeach]

Bill, I used to clean with hot water, as in tea kettle boiling hot, and it caused what is called "flash rusting"- it gets the steel so clean and hot it oxidizes faster than you can move to protect it!

You may have a heavy buildup of crud in your barrel, and need to clean it with one of the abrasive cleaners like JB, Montana Extreme or RemClean. Force a goodly gob of this into a patch, and stroke back and forth ten times, turn the patch over and stroke again. Repeat several times. Then clean with something like lighter fluid, Coleman fuel, paint hinner or denatured alcohol to get all the paste out. Best done outside, away from any ignition source.

For everyday, suggest you clean the rifle with water warm from the tap with just a few drops of dish soap in a bucket. Run a couple of soppy patchs up and down a few times, let sit 10-15 minutes and patch some more. Switch to a clean bucket of warm water to rinse. Dry promptly with several patchs. Protect the metal with a coat of Birchwood Casey Barricade. I just wet a patch with Barricade, swab inside, wipe outside- including the lock and nearby areas-and stand the arm nose down in the corner. The next day I dampen a fresh patch with Barricade, wipe the bore again, and use that same patch again for a couple more days.

Regards,

White Fox, in the People's Republic of Boulder

 

[Rogue River]

If I have that problem with a barrel I clean it and I leave an oil patch on the ramrod close by where I hang out a lot computor, desk ect. and periodically run the ramrod up and down for a couple weeks until I stop getting rust! If the patch gets dirty change it! You will prevail! :grin:

 

[earl jernigan]

I have been told that the CVA drums were of a poor design, causing ignition problems. I have to admit to some hang fires and fail to fire in the past. I never used anything but real black powder. I switched to Magnum CCI no. 11 caps and the ignition problems went away.

HOSS

 

[sheepman]

Thanks for all the tips and advice, I now have some more things to try.

 

[dave weier]

If you run a wet patch of a product called LPS-1 down the bore after you've cleaned it you shouldn't have any more problems. It comes in a spray can and you can get it at most auto parts stores. It dries to a dry lube film. I,ve been using the stuff for 35 years (after trying everthing else in the world) and NEVER had a problem.

 

[Rifleman1776]

After thinking about it, I feel my first response was not a big help.
Two ideas:
#1) Move to Arizona.
#2) My wife just bought a bunch of dessication canisters for the house. Very imaginative name: Moisture Remover. She got them at the Dollar store for......at.....$1.00 each. They are supposed to last for two months. I'm going to buy a bunch to have on hand and put one in my gun safe and change out periodically. Might work for you.
And/or you can locate commercial ones for gun safes. They are pretty expensive but can be renewed by putting in oven and heating.
And then, there are electric warmers, Golden Rod is one, that drive out moisture from gun safes and cabinets.
Considering the value of a gun collection, definitely worth a try.

 

[sheepman]

Actually Spokane is on the dry side (eastern Washington). The Seattle area is where the rain is. Our humidity is 30% or less and rain fall is 12 to 15 inches a year. When we were full time RVers we spent the winters in Arizona (liked it) but left before it got hot. Thanks for all the help,am cleaning daily and re oiling to try and get to where the I don't get any sign of rust with the first patch.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Actually Spokane is on the dry side (eastern Washington).

I knew that. :redface:
I lived in Washington for a year, courtesy of the U.S. Air Force. And, I was a weather guy to boot.
Lesson learned: never post until you are fully caffinated.
OTOH, friends there tell me Arizona is nice to live in. :wink:

 

[sheepman]

We spent 6 winters in Arizona, it is nice but the summers are better in Spokane area 115 to 120 is just too hot for me. I did like the area around Kingman though and have thought of relocating there.

 

[flahipneck]

I used evaporust on a cva .45 that hadn't been cleaned since the 70's, plugged the nipple with a toothpick filled up the bbl, let it set 24 hrs and it cleaned up to white metal. Followed through with brush and patch, all good.I got mine on the flea bay then found out that harbor freight also has it. Their website also has a lot of good info.

 

[Bruce H]

So does everyone agree that hot water should not be used? Hot water was what was recommended on a number of places on the internet (not here) for cleaning when I bought my Pedersoli years ago. I also get the rust-colored stuff on a patch after the ML has been sitting for a few weeks even when I run a few patches down the bore immediately after cleaning until they come out completely dry and clean. I just bought some J-B bore Bore Cleaning Compound; would that resolve any embedded rust I might have? It sounds like I may have to rethink what I am using as a bore protectant too.

 

[Grullaguy]

I didn't get rust using hot water as long as I immediately ran dry and lubed patches down the bore. With a delay of only a couple of minutes, I was getting flash rusting.

As well, water was being trapped in the patent breach and raising the humidity in the bore during storage. In a day,I was getting rusty patches again despite the use of a good gun oil.

I fixed that problem with the liberal use of a hair dryer down the barrel and then in the drum/touch hole area. Since I found it best to use a hair dryer, I no longer bother to boil my water and just use hot water from the tap.

No more rust. :thumbsup:

 

[jamesthomas]

Yes, do not use hot water. As a protectant Birchwood Caseys Barricade is my go to product, just checked my flintlock, which has'nt been touched in a month and it's as clean as when I put it up at the start of Feb. :thumbsup:.

 

[StewartLeach]

Bruce, one of the important ingredients in any gun cleaning regime- any gun type, too- is patience. In the case of BP arms, water warm from the tap and a few drops of dish soap are all that is needed for a solvent. With a removeable barrel, set the breech end in a bucket of solvent, swab ten or a dozen strokes, and let sit while you clean and lube the lock, wipe down the stock, etc. Give it a ten or more minute soak, then patch some more and rinse with fresh water. The point is to let the solvent work on the accumulated fouling. The only difference with pinned in place barrels is to plug the vent or nipple with half a toothpick, and pour the dishwater down the barrel. Wrap a goodly hunk of rag around the muzzle end and grasp firmly to keep water from getting down the barrel channel.

After rinsing I stand the barrel or rifle nose down for a few minutes to encourage draining, then dry with half a dozen patches. The last patches are run to the breech end and let sit for a few minutes to try to soak up any residual moisture. Then the Barricade patch for bore and exterior wipe down, with the bore wiped once a day for the next several days.

I have been shooting competitively in various gun games for 55 years, and have seen and used many, many gun care products. Growing up in coastal New England, rust protection was always a concern. Of all the anti-rust products I've used, Birchwood Casey's Barricade is the best.

Regards,

White Fox

 

[Bill Hall]

The whole issue of hot water causing rust is still up in the air, and probably will be in the distant future. Some people use hot water and get rust immediately (flash rust), while others use it and never have a problem. Neither side is lying nor ignorant, they are truthfully relaying their experience.

Discussing the issue here many times previously, there are a few theories that have come to light to explain the different results. Relative humidity may be a factor, but it's not clear whether high, or low humidity has the most influence. Water content may also be a factor. No tap water is completely pure, chlorine, iron, and other stuff may affect the metal of the barrel.

I am personally leaning toward a high iron content in the water, and low humidity being the greatest influences in rust forming from hot water. I live in the desert (very low humidity), and have a high iron content in my well water. I believe the iron in the water primes the bore for potential rust, and the hot water evaporates faster in the low humidity. Perfect conditions for flash rust, which is exactly what I've experienced when I've cleaned with hot water.

I've witnessed the forming of flash rust on the outsides of steel parts when one of my jobs was degreasing metal parts for painting. If I rinsed the parts with hot water, flash rust would form within a few seconds, especially on a dry day. If I rinsed with room temp water, little or no rust would form. This was done with well water, and most wells around my area have a slightly high iron content.

I mentioned to the original poster to stop using hot water because what he was experiencing sounds exactly like the examples I mentioned. Though hot water may work for some, I think using it was the root of his problem. Just doesn't work for him, even if we don't know exactly why. Bill

 

[S.Kenton]

I use WARM water only with Dawn dish soap as my cleaning agent. I rinse thoroughly and then run a few dry patches. After that I spray REM oil directly into the muzzle and run yet another dry patch..then spray REM oil on the same patch as I just ran...and run it in and out of the barrel a few times...then spray the bore again. I then store upright.When I get a bit of oil coming out of the nippleI know I done it right.This may seem extreme..but it works for me.
ALSO just before loading I spray some brake clean in to the barrel and run a dry patch and allow to dry before loading.
Just my 2 cents.