CVA Mountain Stalker Range Report

[Horizontal Hunter]

This is my first post here though I have been lurking and reading for a while. I have a learned quite a bit by doing that an would like to thank you all for sharing your knowledge. I have been hunting for many years and though I have owned the CVA Mountain Stalker (.50 cal 1:48 twist)for a while I never put in the time to really learn what load will perform well in this gun.

These groups were all at 25 yards, swabing between shots.I realize they are all low I didn't tinker with the sights.

This is what I learned:

1. I need new sights the factory sights (fixed semibuckhorn) just don't work for me and I would appreciate any suggestions you might have.

2.Twice I snapped the cap (Remmington #11's)without igniting the powder. (shots #7 and #9).This never happend when I was shooting Pyrodex. I am going to get some magnum caps and give them a try, or do you thing that I should go with a different nipple like the Hot Shot nipple, or convert to a musket cap?? I did tap the side of the rifle after loading the powder charge.

Any suggestions you have are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Bob

 

[paulvallandigham]

The first thing to do is buy REAL black powder, not the substitutes. I know that the subs are what are in the local gun shop, because that is what they carry. But, you can order powder directly shipped to you, and you can save money even ordering as little as 5 lbs per order, including the Haz Mat fee that is charged. See the links for Powder inc, and Graf& Son, two suppliers that will ship directly to you.

If you go in with other shooters, and buy a full case( 25 lbs) you can save even more money on the powder, and have enough powder to last you a year or two.

Second, you don't need to be shooting conical bullets in that gun. Use the PRB. Its shot a pretty good group, down in that right hand lower corner, even using that powder. It will shoot much better using Black Powder.

Sights: Go to the links under Member Resources, and take a look at Dixie Gun Works, or Log Cabin, or Track of the Wolf, or any other supplier close to you. They all have sights for sale, and you can look at them to see what strikes your fancy.

With my old eyes, I open the rear sight notch up to provide as much daylight on the side of the front sight post, as the front sight appears to be wide through that rear sight. This gives me enough empty space around the front sight as I look through the rear sight notch that I can center the front sight properly in the middle of the notch.
I Don't know any maker who manufacturers a rear sight with that wide a notch. You use files to open up the existing notch, and decided if you like a round bottom notch, or a square notch. I am a long time revolver and pistol shooter, so I like working with a square bottom notch. You may like something different.

When you are shooting a rifle, your focus should always be on the front sight. Other than looking briefly down range to make sure you are aligned on the correct target, or game, you only focus on the front sight, and never the rear sight. You LOOK OVER and THROUGH the rear sight, just as you would an aperture sight. Mentally, you should be thinking of your rear open sight as a peep sight with its top cut away. That way, your eye will automatically center the front sight in the rear notch, and you can maintain your focus through your squeeze, release, and follow-through after the shot is fired on that front sight.

 

[chapmans]

Welcome Bob,
At the top of your target it says you are using 777 if that is the case then, as you have probably already read,the subs are a lot harder to ignite than bp, I also noticed that it looks like you are using precut prelubed patches and it looks like they were offcenter a little when you loaded the ball, I don't know if thats what caused the patch to blow or not but it hurts accuracy. If the barrel is new it may just need broken in this can take 100-200 shots.
My recomendations are:
1. Get some real black powder ffg or fffg.
2. Get some 100% cotton pocket drill or denim for patch material.
3. If you don't have a ball starter get one and start the ball at the muzzle with a strip of patching and cut it flush with the muzzle and start the ball with the long end of the ball starter 3" or so then push it down snuggly on top of the powder, don't pound on it.
4. Start with 55or 60 grs of powder and shoot 5 shot groups off of the bench and go up in 5 gr incriments shooting groups until you find what shoots best.
5. Find a lube that works for you I use Murphy's Oil Soap straight on pocket drill patches for target work and I use spit for woods walks. Hodgdens spit patch for hunting.
6. Get or make a range rod this makes loading and cleaning so much easier.
7.Get a good set of adjustable sights, unless you are going to shoot all primative that calls for fixed sights, I use a sight that is called a Spence rear sight that requires 2 holes to be drilled and tapped in your barrel the sight is about 6" long and is adjustable for elevation and windage. You may have to replace your front sight with a higher one, I think Log Cabin sells them among other places.
8. You may or may not have to clean between shots depending on the depth of you rifling, I usually shoot 5 shots then run a slightly damp patch up and down both sides then a dry patch up and down both sides then I'm ready for 5 more.
Hope this is of some help, Longball 58

 

[arcticap]

I think that your groups are pretty good, especially considering the large 777 powder charges.
When a 15% volume adjustment is added to your 75 grain loading of 777 ffg, you're shooting a load that's equal to 86 grains of BP ffg, which is a stout hunting load for 25 yard target shooting.
Using the smaller fffg powder granulation might help to get better ignition because it does tend to flow into the drum easier.
Try leaving the hammer at 1/2 cock when ramming, the increased flow of escaping air through the nipple may assist the powder to flow into the drum better too.
Maybe your rifle does like Pyrodex better, and there's nothing wrong with shooting comparative groups using that. Sometimes a slower powder or lower charge will be more accurate, and it's fun to experiment.
I've always preferred the flexibility of an adjustable sight too, so it's a good idea to install one.
A better nipple should also help to improve ignition.
Either way, I think that you're shooting your rifle very well. Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:

 

[Horizontal Hunter]

Thanks for the quick replies. I have a few questions:

I will get some real Black powder to try in the rifle. Would you recommend ffg or fffg?

Where can i find the 100% cotton pocket drill or denim for patch material and what thickness would you recommend for the .490 ball? How about pillow ticking?

Paul that really clears up the sight issue for me I have been treating the sight like a partridge sight, or standard V. If I understand you correctly The top of the front blade should be centered as in a peep sight. That would explain why I am so low. A great explanation and trick with the file.


Thanks,

Bob

 

[paulvallandigham]

Get some of each, both FFg and FFFg powder. Try them both. The .50 caliber rifles can like either one, depending on the barrel. I have a .50 1:48 ROT rifle that shoot FFFg okay, but shoots FFg better. I still have FFFg powder around, just in case, and to use in shooting other guns. I am building a .36 cal. rifle and that is what the FFFg was intended to be used in.

All things being equal, FFFg powder tends to burn cleaner, and leave less residue in the barrel. However, if you clean between shots as a safety precaution, as I do, this difference does not matter. I found that if I run my FFg through a screen to rid it of clinkers, and " fines", that it burns so much cleaner I can't tell the difference between it and FFFg as far as residue left in the bore.

I don't like having to screen the powder, but it takes only a few minutes, and I usually do several cans in an evening, maybe once a year, so its no burden at all. Finding where I left the screens for storage is more of a time problem for me these days. I suffer from that old people's disease known as CRS. ( Can't Remember S#*t-- for the GP rating, " Stuff".)

If you are a beginner shooter, use strips of patching and cut your patces off at the muzzle with a patch knife, so you get consistently centered patches. After a couple of years, you can try using the pre-cut patches, but stay away from them now, is my best advice. If the patches are loaded off-center, you are going to see " flyers".

I found 55 Grains of FFFg worked in my percussion .50. In my flintlock, I now use 65 grains of FFg powder to hit the same POI. I have begun using Fiber OP wads by walters, and the gun is not hitting higher when I use the OP wads. That means I may be able to reduce the powder charge by 5-10 grains and hit the original POI. That would be nice. I have more work to do at the bench with that gun, and the OP wads. and a chronograph.

 

[chapmans]

If you have a JoAnn's Fabric store I have purchased both drill and denim from them, I also get mine at a local Amish store in the yard goods department.
Longball 58

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I have one of those, I think you should use BP in it. I got better results in mine with 3F.
actually the groups ain't too bad, but at 50 yards that would be fine once elevation is corrected. off a rest of course.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Looks like you have a really good shooter there. I have a .50 cva mountain stalker too. I put Williams Fiber optic sights on it and changed the nipple to a Hollow based Spitfire nipple from cabelas. The stock nipple i kept getting hangfires/no fires.
Havent worked much yet for a good accurate PRB load but it loves a 295 grain powerbelt with 80 grains Pyrodex Select.
58 yards with 70-80-90-100 grain charges. "Was doing some testing" That 100 grain load really kicked my... well you know.

 

[Gote Rider]

I called cva and ordered some adj. sights and some musket nipples for my mountain stalker. The load I shoot in mine is 100grs.of pyrodex rs and a 370gr.maxi-ball. My groups are very good at 100yds. I have taken lots of deer and hogs with this load. The mountain stalker will put meat in your freezer year after year. It is a very good gun for the money.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

The load I shoot in mine is 100grs.of pyrodex rs and a 370gr.maxi-ball.

You're a better man than I Gote Rider! I once fired one of those little plastic stocked CVAs off the bench with roundballs and just 50 grains of 3f. Fifteen rounds and my cheek was bleeding where the pebble grain texture of the plastic had abraded the skin under my cheek bone. I can't even imagine touching off 100 grains with a 370 grain Maxi!!! :haha:

 

[Horizontal Hunter]

Thanks for all the help guys.

I never realized how hard real black powder was to come by. I am sure the Muzzloader Range Officer at the club I shoot at will be able to point me to some in the area.

Is there a difference in measurment for ffg and fffg, or do you use the same volume?

I have a Joannes Fabric store nearby so I can get the patch material there.

I also have shot the 370g maxi ball with 100g load. All I acomplished was bruising my shoulder. :haha:

I appreciate all of the help and I will post again when I get what I need together and get back to the range.

Thanks,

Bob

 

[paulvallandigham]

There is only a little difference in the weight of powder thrown between using FFg and FFFg powder in and adjustable, VOLUME powder measure. Use a powder scale to investigate this, if you must( because most of us have done it at one time or another), but understand that because of how black powder burns a few grains difference in weight is usually not going to make that much difference on the target. Volume measures are used because they are fast and convenient to use in the field when " loading from the bag". Some target shooters weight out individual powder charges on scales at home, and then transport them to the range in separate powder containers. Those same people will also weigh and sort their bullets and round balls by weight. This sorting by weight seems to have more of an effect on bullets, than on RBs.

Remember to take your micrometer, or caliper to JoAnn's Fabrics, so you can measure the thickness of the cloth samples before buying. If you are testing thicknesses, the clerks may be willing to sell you less than a yard of cloth of several sizes, so you don't get stuck with cloth you won't use, particularly if they understand that when you find the right thickness for your gun, you will be back to buy several yards of the stuff.

 

[Horizontal Hunter]

I did finally find a local shop that carries Goex black powder. I thought I would try to work up a load with the ffg first and see how it goes. I can always get a can of fffg and work up a load with that later if I can't find a good load in ffg.

Knowing me I will scale it at some point as I am more than a little AR. I am already one of those people that weigh everything. I have already weighted a bunch of the round balls to see the variance. Probably comes from building arrows.

I don't have a Micrometer or caliper so I will have to but a roll of patch material either online or at the shop. For now anyway.

I am shooting a .490 ball and .015 patch so I figured that I would get .015 patching material in either the 100% cotton pocket drill or denim.

What do you recommend for a patch lubricant? I have bore butter on hand but I have never used it. I have also read about the crisco, murphy's oil soap, and the home made mixes. I can also pick up some premade lube as well.

Thanks again,

Bob

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu can buy a dial caliper from Midway for about $20.00. They don't come cheaper than that. I have my father linear caliper, and my own dial. They make a digital caliper, but it requires those damn batteries that always seem to run out just when you need to use the tool again. I think most of us can read a dial well enough for this kind of work.

Stop by any machine shop and see if they won't loan you a micrometer to use for an hour or two. When you tell them why you need it, you will find a lot of shooters working right there, and some of them with be MLers, too. You can make friends. They will be fascinated at what thickness of cloth you find at the local JoAnn's Fabric store. Make a small list of thicknesses, so you don't have to take a micrometer, or caliper every time you go. Share those numbers with the guys , if they want them. Tell them how cheap it is to buy cotton fabric at the local store, and make your own patches. They can also sharpen knives for you. Take them some beer to enjoy after work. Make sure its cold.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I use what you know as Bore Butter. I bought mine years ago when it was called, Young Country 101 Lube. Its the same stuff. Its also called Natural Lube 1000, and Wonderlube. It works fine in my .50 caliber rifle.

You can also make your own lube, using formulas you will find at the top of the index page, under Member Resources. Stumpkiller has graciously published his recipes for making his Moose Juice, and Moose Snot. Both work very well.

There are tons of recipes for lubes, using olive oil, cooking oil, castor oil, BAllistol( which is mostly Mineral oil)and other oils from various plants or animals. Some of the guys are using oils rendered from the fat of animals they kill or trap, like mink, and ground hog, among others.

Lubes are perhaps the most often discussed topic on this forum, and others, simply because everyone thinks they can make a better or cheaper product. I even tried JoJoBa oil many years ago to lube patches, which comes from a bean grown on a desert plant. Its a good oil, but I can't say its better than cooking oil, and certainly not worth the price I paid for the small bottle I bought.

 

[Horizontal Hunter]

Thanks for the info Paul. You have been a great help. Once I get the stuff together I will head back to the range and post the results.

Thanks again,

Bob