d Antique firearms banned in condor range

[bpbrs]

Yep sure wish when teh government bans something they'd offer a replacement.
I really like the phrase "bullet riddled". So how many bullets does it take to kill a deer?
I bet that study was influenced and granted by antis?
A friend in Az. commented, how about they report how many condors are hit by cars while eating road kill.

bpb
[url] http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/12/07/state/n165927S65.DTL&type=politics[/url]
State commission imposes lead ammunition ban to protect condor
By SAMANTHA YOUNG, Associated Press Writer

Friday, December 7, 2007

It will be illegal for hunters to possess or fire lead ammunition when they are in California condor habitat under regulations adopted Friday by a state commission.


By a vote of 3-1, the California Fish and Game Commission expanded the state's lead ammunition ban in an effort to safeguard North America's largest flying bird.


"It's pretty clear lead poisoning is one of the major factors preventing recovery of the species," said Jeff Miller, a conservation advocate at the Center for Biological Diversity. "It's another step in getting lead out of the food chain."


The condor was once found from coast to coast, but hunting, pesticides and development drove the birds to the brink of extinction. The federal government declared the bird endangered in 1967.


Scientists for years have said condors are poisoned when they ingest lead while feeding on the bullet-ridden carcasses of other animals. But regulators have been slow to act.


Earlier this summer, commissioner R. Judd Hanna said Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's administration asked him to resign after he clashed with the National Rifle Association over pending condor protections.


Schwarzenegger signed a bill several months later that banned most lead ammunition, but the commission's decision goes further.


Commission president Richard Rogers said the panel needed concrete evidence before it could act. That came this summer when a team of scientists from the University of California, Santa Cruz, linked the lead in condors' blood to that in lead bullets.


"The problem was we could never identify what lead it was because there are multiple sources of lead in the environment," Rogers said. "Now we had a smoking gun and we were able to have direct connectivity between the lead in the bullet and the condor."


The regulation bans hunters from using lead ammunition in .22 caliber or smaller guns ”” often used to kill smaller animals like squirrels and rabbits ”” that lawmakers did not include because there are no non-lead bullets on the market for those guns. Commissioners said they hoped their rule would encourage manufacturers to make alternatives.


The owners of antique guns and hunters who make their own ammunition must also carry nonleaded bullets or pellets when they are in condor habitat, an area that encompasses most of California's central coast. Ammunition will be considered lead-free if it contains less than 1 percent lead.


The rules do not apply to game partridge and quail, or to game bird hunters or permits given to people to shoot nuisance or predatory animals.


In 1987, the last 22 wild condors were trapped and taken to zoos for a breeding program that raised their population to just under 300. Now some 200 condors are in the wild, with about 60 flying in California.


The regulation will take effect July 1, 2008.


___


On the Net: www.fgc.ca.gov

 

[Rebel]

Well, if people would just hurry up and kill of the remaining ones then there wouldn't be any need to protect them would there? :grin:

 

[Allan Gray]

I'd like to see further proof from these tree hugger scientist in Santa Cruz that the lead in the condors BLOOD is directly linked to bullets.
These people need to keep their eye on the ball

This will affect a few people I know, but I don't think it will stop them from hunting.
I'm more worried about the fact that it's a victory for the anti hunting eco-ignorant. Just wait 'till the already growing wild pig population is so far out of control that it becomes another version of a natural disaster. Or freeway deer collision accidents along the coast skyrocket.
AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!! :cursing:

 

[Dave K]

Always seems odd to me that the first thing they do is go after firearms. Ah, like you said, traffic is killing them as well. So why don't we ban traffic from these areas? Oh,dummy me. They don't want to give up their cars! They are not into firearms, so those who are, must pay. Duhhh.

 

[bigbore442001]

I love how these idiots rally against hunters and shooters. I wonder if the lead ingested by these big buzzards came from polluted Mexico?

 

[Tumblernotch]

Ya know, I was a thinkin' the same thing. Good thing they ain't around here.

 

[Walks Alone]

Well, if people would just hurry up and kill of the remaining ones then there wouldn't be any need to protect them would there? :grin:

Not a bit funny pard, even though I know you only meant it in jest. :shake:

 

[Rebel]

Actually, i was serious. We spend way too much time worrying about what might become of some species like the condor or the spotted owl or some damn sucker fish, and not enough time worrying about what is to become of US if the government keeps having its way, and the loud mouthed ANTI's keep getting these BS laws enacted.Farmers and loggers by the thousands lost jobs here in Oregon because of some stupid bird(spotted owl) and worthless fish (flatnosed sucker). Family's are suffering, but nobody worries about them, just the animals. Well the hell with the animals and those who would have them have the same rights as people. In my book, people come first.

 

[Tumblernotch]

:thumbsup: :hatsoff: :thumbsup:

 

[jeepwj992002]

I am all about protecting endangered species, just not at the expense of mine or someone else's livelihood.

 

[Claude Mathis]

I'd like to see further proof from these tree hugger scientist in Santa Cruz that the lead in the condors BLOOD is directly linked to bullets.

Or that it even comes from the United States!

From the University of Michigan (2002)

My comments in blue.

Condors to Be Released in Mexico

Biologists from the US Fish and Wildlife Service, in cooperation with the Zoological Society of San Diego, the Los Angeles Zoo, the California Department of Fish and Game, and numerous Mexican partners, began ferrying six California condors from the Los Angeles Zoo to Mexico on August 12, 2002, flying the endangered birds by plane on the first leg of a journey to a remote mountain site where five will be released this fall.

Once acclimated, five of the condors, all juveniles, will be released to fly over what was once the southernmost extension of a range that stretched from Mexico to Canada. Condors have been absent from Mexico for at least 50 years.

Are they saying that lead poisoning killed off the condors in Mexico, decades before they were listed as endangered in California? There must be a tremendous amount of lead in Mexico to have killed off the entire population.

The goal of the $40 million recovery effort is to establish two wild populations and one captive population of condors, each with 150 birds, including a minimum of 15 breeding pairs apiece. Since condors range so far, biologists will consider the Mexican colony part of the California population, with which it is expected to mix.

Hold everything! The Califonria condors fly as far south as Mexico? Mexico, where the condors went extinct 50 yeares ago - perhaps that's where they getting the lead?[color]

 

[bpbrs]

Sacred bird of the Incas, the Vultur gryphus can live 50 years, stands 1.30m tall with a wing expansion of more than three metres, which permits it to fly, almost without moving its wings, from its nest in the heights of the Andes (5,000m a.s.l.) down to the beaches where it feeds on dead sea lions.

Ancestral carrion bird, it has no song and the male only emits squawks with his tongue when courting the female. They are monogamous, with black plumage with white splashes at the end at the extremities and a white collar. The head and neck have no feathers. The male has a great crest and numerous skin folds which give him a majestic aspect, although not very friendly. Hunting the condor is forbidden but in certain traditional Andean festivals he is tied to the back of a bull, representing the conflict between conquered and conqueror

 

[windwalker_au]

they still use leaded petrol in mexico dont they thats where the lead has probebly come from.
bernie :thumbsup:

 

[bigbore442001]

Mexico has used lead in their gasolene for a long time up until recently.When I visited Mexico about a decade ago,my friend commented" Hey. Do you have a funny taste in your mouth? Sort of like having drank milk after drinking lemonade?"

I commented that I did. He said that was from all of the pollution, especially lead in the air from leaded gasolene.

Mexico apparently phased out leaded gas and on paper they have the strictest environmental laws know. Note I said on paper. In reality it is a sewer. When you cross the Rio Grande, you can see the color of the river. It is turquoise to deep green from all of the pollution and sewage. At least one child in the Valley as it is called is born with just a brain stem each year due to the pollution in the aquafier.

Also, Mexico doesn't have a conservationist mentality in the interior. I got the impression from a friend that any sort of threat to livestock or farming is shot, etc. So I would not doubt if some wealthy ranchers fearing some sort of cut in their profit didn't wipe out the remaining condors in Mexico. I know this sounds like I am bashing Mexico but that is the impression I get from seeing what I saw and hearing what I have heard.

 

[Pork Chop]

Here is a dichotomy to think about...

Most of the conservationists are quite liberal in their views. They are the same folks that don't want religion in schools and want to teach Darwinism as the only true possibility about the creation and development of species.

While they want to keep religion out of schools because it teaches intelligent design, they also want to interfere with the development of the species. Correct me if I am mistaken, but the Theory of Evolution is that the species survive due to the adaption and survival of the fittest. Well, if they cannot adapt, then the Darwinian edict is that they must become extinct.

Am I the only one that sees a dichotomy in the viewpoint of the liberals here?

 

[Claude Mathis]

Am I the only one that sees a dichotomy in the viewpoint of the liberals here?

They're Liberals, what more can be said? :haha:

 

[54ball]

This is another example of flawed science pushing a thinly veiled political agenda.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became as fools.

What killed off the the Condor was DDT and the fact that it is a LSTLarge Slow Target.

Lets look at science on it's own terms. Science is or was taught utilizing the Scientific Method.

One A scientist forms a hypothesis, an educated guess.
Two To test the hypothesis an experiment is performed.
Three After the experiment a theory is proposed. A theory is an interpretation that is subjective and never considered absolute.

Science is Art. Art is not reality. It is an impression of reality. No true scientist belives in an absolute theory. There is no difference between a Picaso and Darwins Theory. Both are one man's view of the world.

Science can be miss-used. If the education is tainted so is the hypothesis followed by the experiment and finally the theory. Add funding, especially goverment funding,and You have fixed results. The Picaso becomes a paint by number black velvet Elvis.

I say science like art is subjective yet laws are absolute. The goverment should not make absolute laws, laws that restrict liberty, security, and the overall prosperity of it's citizens based on flawed or fixed art.

Art like science can be used to fool or sway the masses. It is called propaganda.

A so called great president said You can fool some of the people all of the time. All of the people some of the time, but you cant fool all of the people all of the time. Why would a president of a free country, a republic, want to fool any of the people any of the time.

 

[XXX]

Well, if people would just hurry up and kill of the remaining ones then there wouldn't be any need to protect them would there? :grin:

Not a bit funny pard, even though I know you only meant it in jest. :shake:

I laughed, considered the idea for a moment, dismissed it as I have no interest in and will never visit California, then laughed again.
(Way to think out of the box Reb)

 

[mudd turtle]

I started reading this post and had to quit-made me too mad. Why didn't some of you attend the hearings before something was decided or was it all done in secret so you had no chance to protest the decision. The term bullet riddle carcus is in my mind a perdjious and ignarent remark to start with. The liberals in California dont care about rights of others just what they want. it all must go their way. They just keep nibbleing away at you gun rights until one morning you are going to find you have none left . So much for a free and un bias society. Mudd Turtle. :cursing: :cursing:

 

[Only Round]

OK, what I get from this article is that you can no longer HUNT with lead amunition. So you can still at least shoot lead as long as you're not shooting live targets. Hey, lead shot has been banned for years (to protect another large bird predator)- was that a conspiracy to take away our gun rights? I'm sure someone can come up with a replacement for lead balls. How many rounds do you use through the hunting season anyway? OK, I'm thinking big game, small game hunters might use a bit more, but still? Surely less than 100 rounds? So one expensive box of round ball/year.

Many threads here are talking about just where the lead really came from if not from lead ammo. But the article specifically stated that the lead had been directly linked to ammunition. Too bad they didn't list the specific study that produced this link. Was the study itself supsicious? What evidence was used? What type of tests did they use? How accurate were the results? Without answeres to these questions, we're just blowing a lot of hot air IMHO.

Just my 2 cents worth...