Dawn Dishsoap

[mushka]

I know this is a thread on soaps, etc. I use dawn in the sink washing dishes, but cleaning all my BP rifles I just use plain old cold water with no additives. After flooding, sluicing, rinsing, I """GASP"""" run a patch with plain old GI bore cleaner down the barrel. The old kind. Wipe out, then oil.

 

[Howard Pippin]

When you lubricate your patch with an oil based lubricant such as bee's wax and olive oil, a mix of water soluble oil and water, Bore Butter, T/C Wonderlube or any oil based lube, you need a soap with surfactants to remove the crusty oil and fouling mix.

I apologize for jumping in on your post here, but I finally got to shoot my Flintlock today, as Montana finally warmed up, and I thought I'd tell you how another experiment went. To start with I eliminated my Lyman front side and put in just a .50 high bead sight with a 1/16 bead. I then ran a bunch of balls out of wheel weights, cut square patches of .018 pillow ticking, lubricated them with Murphy's oil soap, And proceeded to shoot without swabbing between balls. The wind got a little tough and kept tipping my target over, so I only got to shoot six times. First ball was on a dry barrel the rest were what ever. All loaded about the same way, accuracy was fairly good, once I got sighted in which took three shots. On coming home I cleaned as usual, with hot water and Thompson Center 1000 lube. I've never used soap, or Dawn since I started muzzleloader shooting and the bore seems all right. ,I wasn't aware that it was necessary and being I never have done it, maybe it isn't. I don't know if the Murphy's oil soap contributed any to the cleaningOr not. The first two or three cleaning patches even after the hot water, did come out quite black. I don't load real heavy, recoil doesn't interest me, so today I shot 45 grains of FFG with 173 grain wheel weight balls. Loading was done with a 3 inch homemade balls starter and one of those wonder rods that I typically use at a range. All balls could be pushed down hand over hand.
It started Spitting rain this evening and as soon as it dries up I'll get another go at it.I would like to shoot at least 10 balls without swabbing and see how it goes.
Squint

 

[BlackHillsBob]

thank you for that, you know how to load and shoot. if your a mind to switch from pillow ticking to medium weight tight weave pure linen square cut patches. bet your groups would even tighten up more.

 

[herbpagel]

Perhaps the Dawn works by attaching to whatever lubricant is left in the bbl. from the patches. When the detergent is rinsed out, the oil, if any, is removed. A fair percentage of powder residue is removed with it.

 

[Billy Boy]

"Hawkeye, I know our dogs love us more than our wifes. Did a test once put the dog and wife in the trunk of the car. After 4 hours let them both out, the dog by far was more happy to see me than my soon to be x-wife.
"
Do you know why divorces are so expensive??

Because they are worth it.

Thats’ why I have cried at all my weddings....

 

[DUANE BUTT]

My home made poison ivy killer calls for vinegar, salt and dash of dash. So I gave it two dashes.

Give us you recipe on poison ivy killer.

 

[Eutycus]

Sorry I really cant give the complete recipe for the weed killer right now. I'm a hundred miles from home on a drs. appointment. But I do remember it calls for salt and vinegar. I dont recall if it originally called for white or applecider vinegar.But I've tried both and they both seem to work. And dont forget that dash of Dawn (sufacatant). I called it poison ivy killer but its really just a weedkiller. But hey it works!

 

[Juice Jaws]

Give us you recipe on poison ivy killer.

All you need to use is straight bleach. That's what I use for the little poison oak that I have here. Also works great on any suckers that come up on your rose's, brushes, etc. I put it in a spray bottle and just spray on the plant. Sometimes you have to go back and spray the plants again. But it will kill them dead. Now for big spraying jobs I use round up. Why we are talking about weed killers on a dawn soap thread to clean ML I ain't sure. I think we have beat this into the ground so for me---Nuff Said

 

[hawkeye2]

Perhaps the Dawn works by attaching to whatever lubricant is left in the bbl. from the patches. When the detergent is rinsed out, the oil, if any, is removed. A fair percentage of powder residue is removed with it.

It's taken 9 pages to get here and you've pretty well said all that needs to be said on the subject in 2 sentences. It's time to find another dead horse to beat.

 

[crankshaft]

Why would you want to soap/detergent to remove oil from your bbl

 

[hawkeye2]

Why would you want to soap/detergent to remove oil from your bbl

I believe he is refering to the lube from the patches, see the first sentence. Any oil in the barrel after a shooting session would be carbonized and need to be removed.

 

[Zonie]

Why would you want to soap/detergent to remove oil from your bbl

When you are cleaning a gun that has been shot with a patch that has been lubricated with something with oil in it, some of that oil will mix with the fouling making it difficult to remove with just water.

The soap causes the oily fouling to be easily washed out of the bore along with the rest of the fouling.

 

[George]

When you are cleaning a gun that has been shot with a patch that has been lubricated with something with oil in it, some of that oil will mix with the fouling making it difficult to remove with just water.

Black powder burns at a temperature of 3880F.

Most oils will burn.

I wonder what kind of oil will withstand that temperature without burning.

Spence

 

[arcticap]

Black powder burns at a temperature of 3880F.
Most oils will burn.
I wonder what kind of oil will withstand that temperature without burning.
Spence

I recently looked at [but did not download] an analysis of black powder residue and thought I saw that it contained "lipids" which are fats. --->>> https://www.academia.edu/21007786/Black_Powder_Residue_Analysis_and_the_Archaeology_of_Explosives

I don't know where they came from.
However, there may be a time factor involved in order to incinerate a particular volume of an ingredient.
For instance, if the volume of a mixture of wax and mineral oil exceeds the amount that can be incinerated in a fraction of a second of exposure to high heat,
then there may be an amount of some of the residue left behind.

Paraffin wax is derived from crude oil and can also be synthetic.
Mineral oil is also a by product of crude oil refining.
They're both ingredients of Bore Butter.

I've also seen people post that their wax cookies sometimes hit the target when they shoot their C&B revolvers.
The ingredients saturating dense felt wool wads may not be totally consumed by the nearly instantaneous flash and heat of the powder.

Perhaps the barrel surface has a cooling effect as the lubed patch travels up the bore upon firing.
Part of the patch is also in contact with the lead ball sealing off hot gases, cooling the patch and keeping it from being incinerated.
The lead ball doesn't seem to melt.
Somewhere there's an explanation for why some compounds are not being incinerated inside of the bore.
Maybe parts of the bore do not get as hot as others.
Maybe some ingredients vaporize and then condense which get deposited on the walls of the bore.

For all I know, there could be resins and tars left in the creosote of the BP charcoal itself of which their removal is aided by a dish detergent like Dawn.
I don't rightly know since I don't have enough concrete scientific proof or knowledge, but it's still fun to guess.

 

[Carbon 6]

Black powder burns at a temperature of 3880F.

Most oils will burn.

I wonder what kind of oil will withstand that temperature without burning.

Spence

I disagree,
Time is a factor.
Steel begins to melt at around 2500 F degrees, yet your barrel doesn't melt when exposed to 3880F.
Why? Time and the second law of thermodynamics. Heat travels from hot to cold.
So, while the temperature might exceed even the melting point of steel, there is not enough energy to overcome the energy transfer of hot to cold..

In order for the oil to burn. you would have to sustain the temperature for an extended amount of time.

 

[nhmoose]

For some reason it Dawned on me to use it.

 

[George]

I disagree,
Time is a factor.

Of course time is a factor. But maybe not a limiting one.

I ran a little experiment a couple of years ago, found that really wet black powder would burn while still wet. Got curious if the same was true of oil, so I repeated it with light machine oil. I stirred enough oil into a small pile of powder to make mud, fired it off and it flashed just about like dry powder. It burned completely, the paper under it was now dry, and it left less residue than when burning powder wet with water.

I think it's possible any oil in the bore can burn right along with the powder.

I've never had a problem getting the bore clean with plain water.

Spence

 

[Rifleman1776]

For some reason it Dawned on me to use it.

Good one.
I had a shooting session yesterday and used a few drops of Dawn in cool water. My cleaning patches were only damp, not dripping. Took only three swipes and bore was clean. Another patch with Barricade and job was done. Argue about surfactants or whatever, I know what my experience was.

 

[AlanG]

Good one.
I had a shooting session yesterday and used a few drops of Dawn in cool water. My cleaning patches were only damp, not dripping. Took only three swipes and bore was clean. Another patch with Barricade and job was done. Argue about surfactants or whatever, I know what my experience was.

I don't doubt your results. but it's got nothing to do with adding "a few drops of Dawn". Dawn doesn't have some miracle properties to instantly dissolve fouling left in the barrel, nor does it have any anti- rust properties. . If it did it would be the defacto bore cleaner everyone would use, Hoppes would go out of business- solving the "Universal Theory"" is likely to happen before BP shooters agree on a cleaner. Three swipes of a mildly damp patches most likely wouldn't get all of the gunk out either.

It should be pointed out that you can run dry cleaning patches down a barrel and they will eventually come up clean- but it sure doesn't mean the barrel is cleaned.

 

[Carbon 6]

I don't doubt your results. but it's got nothing to do with adding "a few drops of Dawn".

So, what does it "have to do with" ?

Sure, other soaps(detergents) will work but Dawn is a household name, it's also a concentrate.

Now we could argue about the amount used, I put a good healthy squirt in the water. which is close to a gallon. A few drops, that's for washing windows.

I am always fascinated by how people clean their guns.

nor does it have any anti- rust properties.

I wouldn't be so quick to write that one off either.